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Original poster

Friend Got The Sack.

32 replies

Justbeinganoseycow · 21/07/2024 15:45

My friend has an in law relation who is in the final stages of end of life. They live overseas.

My friend flew out to be with them and didn't declare this is her boss/manager and they have some how found out ( I'm not sure how ) and they have dismissed her.

My friend was working throughout the time she was out there ( office based ) and now she doesn't have a job.

Is there anyway she could fight this? She feels she has been unfairly dismissed.

Any HR advice or opinions welcome.

OP posts:
murasaki · 21/07/2024 15:47

Well not telling your boss, in fact asking them, is a big mistake. And for an in law? That wouldn't normally get compassionate leave. The company may also have rules about not working abroad for tax or security reasons.

She's fucked up majorly here.

murasaki · 21/07/2024 15:47

Why does she feel it's unfair?

Hermittrismegistus · 21/07/2024 15:49

It would be gross misconduct if I were to attempt to log into my work laptop outside of the UK. It would be a huge security breach.

Pinkbonbon · 21/07/2024 15:49

Well she hasn't been unfairly dismissed.

If she'd just been honest, chances are they would have let her take the time off. Perhaps even without having to work during it.

But she lied to her employer.
They were right to fire her.

pilates · 21/07/2024 15:51

Why did your friend not explain the position to her boss and ask if she could take some compassionate leave?

PlacidPenelope · 21/07/2024 15:52

First question is why didn't your friend ask her boss for permission to do this, particularly if they were prepared to work remotely whilst there? Your friend could have negotiated and offered several solutions/compromises to enable them to go out there, why didn't they?

Second question you say office based, are you saying your friend lied and said they were working from home when they were in fact abroad?

As to not knowing how they were found out it is not difficult.

Original poster
Justbeinganoseycow · 21/07/2024 16:05

I'm not sure why she didn't just ask for permission. I asked her a few questions about it but she got very cagey about it all.

She obviously knows she screwed up. I think she's just pretended to work from home and gone overseas.

But somehow they have found out.

OP posts:
TemuSpecialBuy · 21/07/2024 16:06

How long did she go for?
1 week is very different to 6 months

TinyYellow · 21/07/2024 16:09

It’s kind of you to try and help her but if she’s being cagey about details, and considering what you do know, it doesn’t sound like the dismissal was unfair.

It might be best just to give her sympathy and some positivity for the future instead of false hope that she can get this job back.

TwattyMcFuckFace · 21/07/2024 16:09

Justbeinganoseycow · 21/07/2024 16:05

I'm not sure why she didn't just ask for permission. I asked her a few questions about it but she got very cagey about it all.

She obviously knows she screwed up. I think she's just pretended to work from home and gone overseas.

But somehow they have found out.

I'm not sure why she didn't just ask for permission. I asked her a few questions about it but she got very cagey about it all.

She doesn't want your help or advice then.

murasaki · 21/07/2024 16:15

Hmm, if she's being cagey, I'm not even sure there's an ill in law. Maybe she's run out of annual leave and fancied a holiday. She lied to the boss so game over for her. There would be no trust going forwards.

KenAdams · 21/07/2024 16:16

They've found out because she tried to log in from another country. I don't think she's got a leg to stand on.

Oldfatandfrumpy · 21/07/2024 16:18

There can be tax implications for businesses if people work overseas (depending on how long and what they do for a job), so it always needs to be discussed and agreed in advance

Sneaking off and hoping not to get caught is a pretty big breach of trust, so I assume she either has less than 2 years service or went through a disciplinary for gross misconduct?

Misthios · 21/07/2024 16:23

She feels she has been unfairly dismissed.

Well obviously she is entitled to feel whatever she wants. But she's not got a leg to stand on trying to prove that they have treated her unfairly.

StormingNorman · 21/07/2024 16:25

it was a big mistake not to get this cleared before she left. I assume she was dismissed for taking unauthorised leave and you can’t really argue that. She was not authorised to be away from the office.

Darkfire · 21/07/2024 16:29

What does her contract state about her working abroad?

MissMarianHalcombe · 21/07/2024 16:37

How long has she worked there? If it’s less than 2 years & no discrimination element then she can’t claim it’s unfair. You need 2 years continuous service. Did her employer follow a fair process to dismiss her? If they didn’t then despite her taking leave without permission, it could be an unfair dismissal. If they followed the right process then she’s going to have a hard time proving it unless there’s some more to her story. Even if they didn’t follow the correct process, she might be deemed as behaving inappropriately & an ET might consider a Polkey reduction (ie agree process wasn’t followed but her actions would have led to dismissal if they had and so they agree it’s an unfair dismissal but award her no compensation). Lots of people talk about an unfair dismissal but don’t really understand the difference between feeling unfair & being legally unfair. She needs proper advice

ClimbEveryLadder · 21/07/2024 16:39

There are HMRC rules that businesses have to adhere to over where they can allow employees to work from home. The business has to have a legal entity in that country (they may be other rules as well but this is the one that causes the most difficulties for businesses and managers that would otherwise be happy to allow flexibility in cases where family illness is concerned). It is very easy for IT to monitor where employees are VPN from.

LookItsMeAgain · 21/07/2024 16:41

murasaki · 21/07/2024 15:47

Well not telling your boss, in fact asking them, is a big mistake. And for an in law? That wouldn't normally get compassionate leave. The company may also have rules about not working abroad for tax or security reasons.

She's fucked up majorly here.

Why would you need to ask whether you could work from a different physical location (as in not your home/bedroom/kitchen table) if you're WFH, so long as the work is getting done and you're contactable during working hours?
Depending on the company, it may well be the type of situation that does qualify for compassionate leave but that is dependent on the employer.
The tax reasons, well, if the employee isn't working from this other location for more than X number of days (details would be available on HMRC website) then it wouldn't be relevant either.

I don't see it that she has fucked up majorly.

@Justbeinganoseycow, when your friend returns home, get them to contact ACAS to see if they have a case for unfair dismissal.

If there is no ill relative, then she has fucked up and also would have proven herself to be unreliable.

PotNoodleNancy · 21/07/2024 16:46

I’m going to hazard a guess that the employee has broken an important term in her contract which has allowed them to sack her for Gross Misconduct.

That’s probably why she’s being cagey with you.

MissMarianHalcombe · 21/07/2024 16:48

LookItsMeAgain · 21/07/2024 16:41

Why would you need to ask whether you could work from a different physical location (as in not your home/bedroom/kitchen table) if you're WFH, so long as the work is getting done and you're contactable during working hours?
Depending on the company, it may well be the type of situation that does qualify for compassionate leave but that is dependent on the employer.
The tax reasons, well, if the employee isn't working from this other location for more than X number of days (details would be available on HMRC website) then it wouldn't be relevant either.

I don't see it that she has fucked up majorly.

@Justbeinganoseycow, when your friend returns home, get them to contact ACAS to see if they have a case for unfair dismissal.

If there is no ill relative, then she has fucked up and also would have proven herself to be unreliable.

Show quote history

If you work in uk based financial services it would be very important, so it really depends on the organisation she works for-and what her contract says as a place of work

CelesteCunningham · 21/07/2024 16:49

As others have said, there are tax implications for the business if they have staff working abroad, not to mention data security etc.

And then there's the dishonest if she just went without mentioning.

PotNoodleNancy · 21/07/2024 16:51

@LookItsMeAgain

Why would you need to ask whether you could work from a different physical location (as in not your home/bedroom/kitchen table) if you're WFH, so long as the work is getting done and you're contactable during working hours?

Depends on the nature of the work. If you’re working with confidential data, it’s potentially a criminal matter to transfer the data outside of the UK and the company could also face prosecution.

Being sacked might be the least of her problems if it’s deemed a potentially serious data breach. 🤔

longdistanceclaraclara · 21/07/2024 16:54

I can't take my laptop / phone out of the country without serious high level sign off.

She's fucked up.

MollyButton · 21/07/2024 16:54

In my organisation you can wfh wherever you like in the UK. But all work has to be done of office equipment, AND you cannot take any of it abroad except in very limited and strict conditions. Because of security concerns.
And if you go to certain countries and have certain status you have to have a security briefing first and a debriefing on your return.

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