So sad about Strictly.

[CurlewKate]

It's been part of our family life since it started. I really wanted to think it was as wholesome and joyous and life affirming as it looked, even though I knew it probably wasn't.

And there are celebrities that I feel differently about now because they didn't blow the whistle.😢

To be a professional dancer means you must have a thick skin and be able to reach perfection , but to expect someone who used to be in a soap or on a reality show to be able to be the same is a huge ask and not very fair ( it is only a light entertainment programme at the end of the day !)
Obviously it's taken seriously , but these allegations are worrying and now it seems it's the men and the women who have these expectations of people who aren't necessarily that good at dancing or were flagging under such harsh training regimes each week and being bullied to boot. Being Hit and kicked is just horrible and out of order. Who needs this in their life just for a tv show?
It's sad really, but it doesn't surprise me either given what we know about the bbc historically
I wished they would abolish the tv licence tbh.
The bbc is clearly very toxic and good at covering up all sorts.
The ones who were not that great were always the more entertaining anyway.
Maybe time to scrap it?
It's certainly tainted its reputation with these new allegations

These types of programmes need to go back to their original premise, but I suppose that ship has sailed now. Twenty years ago, it was about professionals teaching amateurs to develop a dancing skill. Then it got bigger and more popular and competitive. This is the backlash. I never found Gio an entertaining personality, but I really liked Graziano and am very disappointed in him. Theres no excuse for his behaviour.

I don’t agree that Tess and Claudia should shoulder some of the blame, but I do think the judges have some culpability. The trouble is that everyone will now be so careful that it will lose some of the edge and risk. Perhaps not a bad thing though.

The same applies to the Apprentice, which was great with Nick and Margaret, but they’re all caricatures of themselves now.

The trouble is - and I am not excusing abuse in any shape or form - is that many of them are from different cultures where the training is very old school. And, or, where machismo rules.

I'm glad it's not just me. I had to read it twice to figure out if I'd missed the part of what actually happened.

That article is pointless.

Is there any footage that anyone has seen of Grazi kicking Zara?

Do they literally not hang out anywhere? Chat informally as a bigger group? I assumed there would be some hanging around together given how slow some parts must be.
More fool me.

Strictly started as a wholesome family show, but that label has definitely slipped. The recent toxic stories are awful, that Zara couldn't speak up and had to turn in each Saturday to do her routine is heartbreaking. What else were people coping with when they turned up each Saturday?

Once strictly was watched by all generations in our family but that has changed. The older generation particularly, in my family don't know who the celebs are, dislike the strictly curse that broke up relationships and sweet families (Joe Calzaghe looking at you..) and find the show has moved from wholesome dancing to a bit more risque.

The production team need to take a good long look at the direction the show has taken, as I feel it has evolved without good stewardship resting on its laurels. Poor presenting, mismanagement of celebs and their care, and lack of wholesome content means it is being left behind by the likes of the masked singer. I would much prefer my children to watch a singer dressed as an octopus having a laugh, than gyrating skimpy clad dancers with toxic backstage behavior and lack of boundaries.

My older relatives love the masked singer as do my kids, goodness help BBC if ITV decided to show MS in the autumn......

I'm not sure that they can come back from this.

Every time a celeb is voted out, they gush about how wonderful their experience was,and how their dance partner is a friend for life!

Yes, of him kicking, hitting and spitting on her. Obviously they are not going to make it public

Amanda Abbington has had such a lot of abuse for speaking up, poor woman.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/bbc-strictly-come-dancings-graziano-29538100

But if everyone is saying how tough the training is, it's easy to fall into the trap of believing you should somehow be able to cope. Unless they are spending time in each other's training sessions, they don't have an objective comparison.

"While we would never comment on individual cases, it is well-known that the BBC has established robust duty of care procedures, and if issues are raised we will always take them seriously and act swiftly as appropriate."

Wow, fuck off BBC. You left young women alone with these men and now claim your procedures are robust.

I was a front row audience member in one of the very first programmes and the production staff were ruthless. The audience applause is staged and forced.

None of this surprises me, I haven't watched any of it since my experience above

And that's where the bbc have failed. They should have provided that objective observation and ensured the wellbeing of contestants.

The standards are way higher than they used to be, really, and I suppose turning someone with no professional dance training into someone dancing to pro standard in three months is going to take some commitment. It's not right but people teach the way they were taught. It is definitely why there should be someone in charge of staff welfare, both celebs and dancers, making sure no one is being treated badly.

I find it surprising that the celebs never had a cry in a corner or asked anyone how they cope when their pro is angry and spits at you.
Or the pros were maintaining the charm outside the rehearsal room and never slipped into ‘silly cow cried when I grabbed her arm…’

But then husbands manage to abuse their wives without anyone noticing so I shouldn’t be.

To be honest I always suspected that sort of thing went on - reality TV is never the happy familly it makes itself out to be - the dance and theatre world in particular is rife with abusive training and working methods.

To get non professionals to the level required by the show would have involved a serious amount of very uncomfortable training and pressure. Add in people from a world where abusive training methods are normalised from a young age and the sheer desperstion of many professionals and contestants to do well (these kind of shows can be career make or break) and you have a perfect storm.

I’m a big Strictly fan, and I feel sorry for the show but mainly I feel so very, very sad for Zara and the other people who have been abused in the name of showbizz.

I don’t do sm other than Mumsnet but I gather that Zara and her dh have made videos and reels with Graziano since Strictly and they appeared to be on really good terms.

How terrible that she either felt that it was normal to be treated that way, or she didn’t, and kept it all hidden because she was afraid that she wouldn’t be believed. Or saw what happened to Abby and was too scared of the backlash.

I thought that her body language was stiff and a bit “off” when she was dancing with Graz; and now I realise that she must have been terrified. I’m old enough to have dds around Zara’s age and I just find it so distressing to think about. And all in the name of “entertainment”!

Something tells me there won’t be complaints from the male celebs about the female dancers though.

This is men exploiting an opportunity to abuse a woman.

Even though the bbc won't have sacked them for no reason, you can see why the women were afraid to speak out about the abuse, given how people don't want to believe it and prefer to heap more abuse on the victim instead of the abuser.

Isn't it always the way? A woman was attacked in the street locally to me on her way home in the dark in winter. Did people criticise the attacker? Nope, they blamed the woman for walking home in the dark. (On a well lit main road.)

Its sort of sad and horrible really. The show had been limping along for years, having moved away from anything joyous, fun and unexpected years ago.
Claudia and Tess being being paid millions. If I ever did see it, I had to mute Tess.
Gone are the days when " an older women" or a flat footed sports personality blossomed. It is sad really.

I am sadly disappointed in Strictly in many ways. It has been turning into a pantomime parody of itself for several years now.
I could believe Amanda’s allegations about Giovani because I always thought he seemed arrogant and domineering. Graziano had me completely fooled.
I think Giovani benefitted hugely from his friendship and professional partnership with Anton because this softened his image. I think there was an assumption that if Mr Nice Guy Anton likes him so much then he must be a kind man deep down beneath the steely surface.
I am now questioning my view of Anton. Did he not know anything about his friend’s behaviour? I find that hard to believe tbh.

Well exactly. Working hard but in a positive supportive environment is possible. You don’t have to physically punish people to break a bad habit.

Reward based training and practice work as well for people as it does for animals! Doesn’t make it less difficult, but the trusting relationship is built.

I agree. You’d have to be very naive to think that these celebs with no real dance experience get to be so good without a very rigorous training regime.
They shouldn’t take Strictly on if they aren’t prepared for that.