Musings on men and football

[Asurprisevisit55]

I’m female, don’t really follow football, but enjoy the international tournaments.

I watched the game last night and oh so many questions … .

It was impressive and touching to see the sea of England supporters and it made me think about the motivation behind this vast number of men getting organised, sorting accommodation, buying tickets and expensive shirts, travelling, forming groups, hanging flags neatly in a row …

…and then, during the match, the outpouring of emotion is extraordinary…

… men singing, dancing, crying, hugging, players kissing one another… .

And then I thought about the reverse of all of that … about the many men, obviously some not all, who tend to be quite cold and unexpressive, who never plan holidays, or buy clothes, or arrange group or family activities, or even bother to maintain friendships…

… and who avoid attempts made to connect with them, who cut off attempts at communication, who avoid family gatherings etc.

I know this is a huge generalisation, but what is this all about?

Competition? Pride? Tribalism? Belonging?

Can anyone explain?

“Football is not a matter of life and death... it's much more important than that.” ― Bill Shankly

😀

But why BIWI?

It's certainly an outlet for a lot if them. Social grease, much as I hate football, I appreciate the role it plays for the men in my family. If in doubt, talk about football.

Ask the Taylor Swift fans the same thing ?

It's not just football.

People like to get behind stuff and be part of a team/tribe.

It's not that hard to understand.

Must tap into their ancient need to be in a successful hunting group of men.

Women’s survival was more dependent on building social bonds and sharing child rearing with other women.

My DH is in Germany for the footie
He also arranges our holidays and buys clothes

I was talking about this with a friend this morning.

Football has such a potential for good. I can't think of anything else that brings, especially boys/men, of all ages together in the same way.
Ds goes down to the park with a football and he'll end up playing with a group from times up to adults. That was true when he was a toddler, and still is true at 17yo.
They are generally supportive and inclusive, with cheering on the younger ones, and also including people with disabilities.

But then you get the flip side. The fighting, domestic violence etc.

If the good could be used to outlaw the bad, that would be an amazing thing. Can footballers use the influence they have for good?
I hope they could, and it is a minority spoiling it for the majority, so let's see some push for change within the football community to make it only a force for good.

It's tribal. I'm sure a lot of the best and worst of modern human behaviour comes down to our deep need to be part of a tribe and the fact that many of us don't really have one in the way that humans used to.

Ex DH and one of our DDs are obsessed with football. She gets so much joy from it. Last night she was standing up and screaming and overcome for much of the game. How lovely to have that passion.
She has said it’s like a fantastic story that never ends. There is always something happening, something to hope for, characters to love and support.
Ex DH is very ill and he has had such wonderful support from his football friends. There’s a lot to dislike about football but overall it’s massively important and part of our cultural identity.

Thanks for these insights…

It’s great to see positive posts Useruserdoubleuser
and MargaretThursday

And of course some women get a lot out of the game too

Motheranddaughter
Yes, of course, I did say I was generalising massively

Interesting about anthropological aspects AllProperTeaIsTheft
and Fleetybeety

I guess I was wondering about why the same man can be so completely different in two different settings?

Is it because it’s safer to show emotion in groups? Perhaps because showing emotion alone is perceived as weak?

And why some men are so committed and engaged in football, but avoidant and fairly emotionally cold in other areas of family life?

Again this is a massive generalisation, but I reckon we all know someone a bit like this?

It's totally a situation where everyone has licence to be passionate! Dbro was never interested in football, but took an interest when dnephew was small and wishes he'd done it sooner, just so he could strike up conversation with anyone. blokesin the pub

Remind me what happens to domestic violence rates when there's a major football event? Not really all that positive...

It's one of those passed down from generations things. I doubt the majority really are as excited as they appear but pack mentality, need to conform with peers etc turns normal men into a baying mob, acting as if every kick is a matter of life and death. They know it isnt but they have to act like it is. You'll have seen a shirtless kid on the footage last night getting indoctrinated. Probably age 7 or so. He simply copies the aggression, tears and screaming men he's with and so the cycle continues.

It's a ritualised battle thing imo.
(makes my eyes glaze over with boredom)

Oh and its also seen by the powers that be as important to be in touch with the common man. Hence Prince William giving it the biggun when England scored, and a clip yesterday of Keir somewhat half heartedly punching the air in an attempt to show how much of a damn he gives and how he's one of the boys. Ditto Adele.

It's one of those passed down from generations things.

I thought that. Then ds came along.

Dh is not into football. Best he can do is occasionally drag up a football statistic. I am not into football. Neither our families are into football. My dad quite enjoyed playing, but wasn't particularly a watcher, didn't support a team... and also lives around 300 miles away so his input on ds was small.

Yet ds loves it and before he was old enough to have influences at school was emotionally into it.

We went to the Paralympics when he was small. We watched a couple of the football matches, between two countries he'd not have heard of. There weren't many people watching and those that were were sitting watching quietly - very few people had a "side" they were cheering. Within minutes of them on the pitch with the ball he'd picked a side and was totally engrossed by the match. He looked just like the older men in the crowds do with his hands in the air in triumph, dancing with excitement when his chosen team had the ball and head in hands despair when the other team were near the goal.

We watched several different sports over that day, some of which (especially those with English teams) were very excitable crowds. He only reacted like that for the football.

No, I don't really get it, but there obviously was something that hooked him.

Oh no. I didn't know that. That's horrific.

Really interesting.

So it's an "acceptable" conduit to express emotion?

It is. I never expected to have a child who was that into football. He loves lots of sports but football is the only one that emotion comes into it.

I have to admit to finding it rather odd. 😀

I love football. It's very important to us all here, Dh, and ds's.

I doubt it's an innate thing, seems more learned. You're not telling me a child who's never seen football matches on the TV or Sunday League or wherever would suddenly go to their first match and start acting like a manic Jerry Springer audience.

I feel really uncomfortable about the extremes of emotion that football seems to provoke in many men.

Normally I'd think of joy and rage exiting at opposite ends of a spectrum, but somehow in the sight and the sound of a big football crowd, that linear spectrum seems to have been bent into a circle to that the joy and rage are almost touching. I find it really unsettling and even threatening somehow, as if on a primative level I sense instability and danger.

Thay instinctive feeling isn't lessened by knowing the relationship between football and DV.

I don’t like football, I do however like rugby, I used to play professionally, I went to Japan with our son for the world cup.

They do buy clothes, plan trips etc, but only that directly benefit them, rather than things that would also benefit others close to them. Essentially they have no interest in the interests of others, even if those others are their partner or children.

Still horrified by the thought of raised levels of DA.

Is it correlated with raised alcohol levels? Or testosterone? Or socialisation? Or collective behaviour or influence?

Or what?

What is the reason behind it?