Musings on men and football

[Asurprisevisit55]

I’m female, don’t really follow football, but enjoy the international tournaments.

I watched the game last night and oh so many questions … .

It was impressive and touching to see the sea of England supporters and it made me think about the motivation behind this vast number of men getting organised, sorting accommodation, buying tickets and expensive shirts, travelling, forming groups, hanging flags neatly in a row …

…and then, during the match, the outpouring of emotion is extraordinary…

… men singing, dancing, crying, hugging, players kissing one another… .

And then I thought about the reverse of all of that … about the many men, obviously some not all, who tend to be quite cold and unexpressive, who never plan holidays, or buy clothes, or arrange group or family activities, or even bother to maintain friendships…

… and who avoid attempts made to connect with them, who cut off attempts at communication, who avoid family gatherings etc.

I know this is a huge generalisation, but what is this all about?

Competition? Pride? Tribalism? Belonging?

Can anyone explain?

Yes looking at all of the men present yesterday, I couldn't help thinking about all of the women back at home left on their own wrangling toddlers in to bed.

😄😄

You'd have to read studies on it but I would hazard a guess at testosterone combined with having spent a few hours in a macho environment with predominantly other men. Acting like pack animals, sharing the highs of winning and the lows of losing. I gather the DA rates spike when teams lose rather than win.

For my partner, he just loves football. He's got a quiet group of close friends who also love football and when they go abroad for matches, it's just about the football and spending time with friends. Some of our/their now adult kids go with them too now, who have all grown up together, it's nice that they all have a common interest.

I know what you are saying. Even the celebrations feel quite aggressive and tribal but maybe that's about the sheer number of men present or it's particularly associated with English fans who have a bit of bad reputation? I know this is another massive generalisation as not all fans are violent by any means and I've noticed quite a few young children in the crowds in Germany.

Yes looking at all of the men present yesterday, I couldn't help thinking about all of the women back at home left on their own wrangling toddlers in to bed

In a healthy relationship where the men are good partners and fathers, I see nothing wrong with having a bit of time away for a hobby. Same goes for women/mums too.

We were both perfectly capable of coping with our kids alone.

Back of the net!

Thx. I will do a bit of research.

I didn't like to ask if the levels of violence rise when the team loses but sadly I'm not surprised.

I would suggest OP that you actually go to a football match and experience one first hand as I assume you haven't.

Yes, agreed. I suppose I was surprised by the commitment shown by all of the fans as it takes quite a bit of effort to prise the men in my family away from their desks to go on holiday.

Is the female equivalent a Taylor Swift concert? 😀 (Although I am female and don't understand her popularity.) I am just trying to think of equivalent instances in which women gather in similar numbers?

Yes that's true. I never have.

I’m a season ticket holder at a big Championship club, so I’m not exactly a dispassionate outsider to football.

Going to football & supporting their team provides fans (and yes the vast majority are still men) with a sense of togetherness & cameraderie, in good times & bad. There is no feeling quite like being an away supporter, travelling to a town you don’t know well, making your way to the ground, finding the away end, going through the turnstile & being enveloped in a group of your own people singing your club’s songs and greeting strangers as friends.

Here’s the bit that many women who are not football fans don’t get : Men have this thing called testosterone which drives much of their behaviour but which society demands they keep firmly under control. Football matches provide them with an outlet for that testosterone. A place where they can let out their emotions in a controlled environment in which expressing joy, frustration and, yes, anger are both permitted and accepted, within reason.

If they have had a shit week at work & their boss is a dickhead they can’t express the frustration & anger they feel at work if they want to keep their jobs. They can let it out at football by screaming foul mouthed abuse at the opposition, their fans and the referee. Think of it as a bloke’s equivalent of women having a good cry at a weepie movie while demolishing a box of chocolates.

They can let it out at football by screaming foul mouthed abuse at the opposition, their fans and the referee.

Nothing to be proud of though is it? Expressing pent up frustration in that way, then going home and beating the wife/kicking the dog/being in a mood with the family. In fact, OP doesnt need to even go to a match. She could visit a railway station after the match or travel on the train and hear the language and experience the neanderthal behaviour.

Agree.

But to try and be as fair as possible, isn't supporting a team an intrinsically altruistic act? Especially if it involves expense and travel etc?

Agreed. I watched some of the match last night and saw the England players constantly spitting on the pitch, yellow cards, pushing, grabbing other players' shirts and faking being hurt. I didn't find much to be proud of there to be honest and foul mouthed screaming of abuse from football fans is precisely why they have such a bad reputation.

Thank you for that.

I can certainly understand the camaraderie aspect and the venting of frustration; also the feeling of being part of a tight group with
a "them against us" mentality; I assuming it's about a sense of belonging.

Yes, agreed. I suppose I was surprised by the commitment shown by all of the fans as it takes quite a bit of effort to prise the men in my family away from their desks to go on holiday.

My partner and his make friends aren't like that at all, nor are my friends husband/partners. We often all go away together and the men often plan where we're visiting/where were eating. I suppose there's a lot of shitty men out there though,

Is the female equivalent a Taylor Swift concert? 😀 (Although I am female and don't understand her popularity.) I am just trying to think of equivalent instances in which women gather in similar numbers?

Some of the adult kids go away with my partner and his friends, daughters as well as sons. Some women are just as into football as men. My friend has a season ticket for her club and often follows them to away games too.

I suppose it's whatever you're into. I like music and have seen my favourite artist in lots of countries. Another friend of mine travels to hike in different places, with a group, and also does photography whilst she's there

Altruism?! Escaping from the wife and kids. Engaging in misogony, casual drinking, foul language, playground insults. I dont believe it's about the game at all. It's merely the conduit to allow men to behave as if in a circus. All big UK cities will have bars offering pre-match entertainment by way of strippers, sweary chants, lewd games etc.

During the game you have men who wouldnt cry if their granny died but are in tears at the thought of relegation of a missed penalty. And mild mannered men who have to take part in the chants and abuse otherwise they stand out from the crowd. They do tend to have "family areas" in the bigger stadiums but you're never far from the thugs. And lets not start on the 1970s birth of football firms/violence which still continues to this day.

As well as offering a vehicle by which aggression and competition between men can be ritualised and managed football can also be a way to placate young men who don't have much prospect of making a good living. It offers the hope that they could make it big one day like the footballers.

Starmer is an Arsenal support and has been since childhood he’s not pretending, I thought that wa quite well known, not exactly unexpected for his age and growing up near London.

Are you British, where the heck are these bars with strippers! You sound like someone who doesn’t have a clue quite frankly and is just making huge sweeps with a broom that has the word, ‘Generalisation’ stamped across it!

It's almost exclusively down to alcohol. Abuse increases when the team wins or loses. Abuse also lessens when games are later because otherwise the perpetrator is drinking for hours before going home.

That’s more than a little patronising. And out of touch. It’s not just young men who don't have much prospect of making a good living who are football fans.

Going to games isn’t cheap these days, particularly in the Premier League, and anyone who doesn’t regularly attend might be surprised at the demographics of those who do. In reality, fans are older, more affluent and more diverse in terms of gender & education than stereotype suggests.

North East - well known in both Sunderland and Newcastle, though they may have closed in recent years? Pre match entertainment is still a thing though.

But to try and be as fair as possible, isn't supporting a team an intrinsically altruistic act? Especially if it involves expense and travel etc?

Tales of yore....The Inter City Firm. The late 1970's to late 1980's was horrific. Nobody travelled by train on a Saturday. It was rough. Tattoos, cigarettes, lager and very, very oddly........Pringle Jumpers. Anyone remember that?