The Guardian today on the safety of the Lucy Letby convictions

[Kittybythelighthouse]

This article was apparently months in the making but it was delayed by the reporting restrictions https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/jul/09/lucy-letby-evidence-experts-question

“A Guardian investigation has interviewed dozens of these experts and seen further evidence from emails and documents. Those raising concerns include several leading consultant neonatologists, some with current or recent leadership roles, and several senior neonatal nurses. Others are public health professionals, GPs, biochemists, a leading government microbiologist, and lawyers. Several of those still working in the NHS have asked to remain anonymous, fearing the impact if they are named.

These experts said they were acutely aware of the suffering of the families involved and did not want to reopen their trauma, but were so troubled they felt compelled to become involved”

The Trial of Lucy Letby podcast is made by the Daily Mail. Hardly a bastion of high quality, independent journalism.

I do think that the most recent trial is really dubious, because it was entirely based on eyewitness testimony from someone who had clearly been really affected by the other events. I'm not suggesting the doctor was lying, but I do think that the evidence is clear how unreliable memory is at that distance and with so much potentially affecting how he recalls the events of the time now. That said, I wasn't in the courtroom and the jurors were.

Apparently she was a serial searcher and was searching people totally unconnected to the families I saw on another thread that she apparently searched people from a dance class and various others

Was wondering if there would be a thread here after I saw the Guardian article this morning.

So much seems to have hinged on "psychological profiling" in a way.

I really don't know what to make of the entire case but I have experienced the complexities of a medically based controversy personally and I can say with confidence it's not an easy ride. Alot goes on in other court settings based on "the balance of probabilities" and I think some of that went on here.

It's a terrible case all round.

I just had a look at the post-it note. As a sufferer of OCD, I used to sometimes write down my intrusive thoughts in an attempt to get them out of my head and onto paper, so it rang a bell with me.

The garbled and contradictory nature of what she wrote doesn’t seem enough to prove she’s guilty, imo. Christ, if anyone could saw what I used to scrawl they’d have convicted me of everything from kidnapping Shergar to the Great Train Robbery.

I’m not saying she’s innocent. I don’t know. But as evidence of anything other than extreme mental distress, I don’t believe that note is worth the paper it’s written on.

I’m sick of this conspiracy nonsense. One of those little babies had their feeding tube rammed in so hard they suffered fatal trauma. She’s guilty, and those in the shadows wanting to speak out after should hang their heads in shame.

Premature babies are so fragile, their tissues are paper thin and in the case of my babies they can accidentally grab a tube and then pull on it causing injuries because they really are so delicate.

From what I’ve read as well some of these babies were hard to intubate ? That itself could have caused the trauma ….

People who don’t think we should question the trials because Lucy Letby is a young white woman are really disturbing.

Clearly for some people her race is important, and it’s not those with concerns about the verdicts.

Justice should be fairly administered for everyone, yes, even young white women. The fact that for some this whole case is about race is chilling.

Yes I read that she searched virtually everyone on Facebook- friends of friends, colleagues, random people at her dance classes etc. Basically everyone she met or had connections to. Apparently the bereaved parents were just a tiny percentage of her searches.

The Daily Telegraph has now also published an article on similar lines:

https://archive.is/X3MGx

Archive link to bypass the paywall

I saw an article in the mirror I think a little while ago about her writing a secret code in one of her diaries on the day some babies died which raised the suspicion of the police. She had literally written LD which I write in all my diaries as it means long day and how it shows on my off duty.
I know this isn’t by any stretch the only evidence against her but it’s so easy to dismiss if you speak to any nurse. It did make me wonder if they were finding evidence to fit without investigating it further and also how a newspaper could print it as if it was damning evidence of her guilt.

It’s understandable to be looking for an answer for the families so they have closure but it needs to be the truth.

It’s understandable to be so cautious and desperate to make sure you have a potential child murderer locked up so they can’t harm again. There is clearly a lot of fear over making the wrong decision in that direction but not so much concern over a potential miscarriage of justice.

What did they allege the LD meant in her diary was it initials or something else ?

It’s right there on the note. Just to the left of “I did this”

Setting aside everything else, that looks to me like "they won't", not "they went". There's a dot that looks like an apostrophe before the "t".

It actually looks like it follows the bit that says "how will things ever be like...[covered by the word HATE]", as an answer to the question - the writing matches that line but doesn't match the "I killed them", so it looks more like she was jumping around the note looking for space.

In the article they said she had written LO but it was definitely LD. It just said it raised the police suspicions as it seemed like a secret code. I’ll see if I can find the article…

Did you read the article? No mention of her being young, pretty, or white. Lots of esteemed professionals with valid concerns“

Equally esteemed professionals, the CPS and jury with no such concerns.

You have never doubted yourself or your actions? You have never questioned yourself when others have accused you of something? You have never experienced self hatred?

This is the article
www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/lucy-letby-killer-nurse-used-30779322

I read the article this morning and it made me feel very uncomfortable. There is a significant body of expert knowledge calling these convictions into question. It is not just a lone operator with some crank theories.

I have no idea whether she is guilty but what I read in the article has left me with a deep sense of unease.

This is all extremely concerning and has been from the start.

I agree, said exactly the same upthread.

So they haven’t conclusively deciphered this supposed code or found any kind of key for it? I have so much rubbish written in my diary as I expect a lot of us do ! I’m pretty sure anyone would look and if they wanted to see a code they could and then decide it could mean anything !!!

I think the biggest failure throughout all of this has been in not holding NHS management to account. There should be sackings, there should be criminal accountability for the failings or this sort of thing will keep happening. Instead it appears those responsible have nice fat pensions from the public purse and no consequences.

From a safeguarding patients and risk- management point of view, as soon as Letby was linked in a circumstantial way to the deaths, she should have been removed from frontline nursing. Even if it's only 'potentially' protecting those babies, you do that because of risk management and safeguarding regardless of whether she's innocent or guilty. Then you investigate in a timely and evidence based way (which didn't happen). If it was something other than Letby killing those babies then removing her also protects her. I'm not saying it was something other than her, just that this is good practice which was not followed and a safeguarding failure by management for which there has been no consequence to those who let it happen. If Letby is the monster so many believe her to be those risk-based safeguarding actions would have saved lives.

It always seemed to me in this case (and there are other similar situations too) that it oscillated wildly from 'Letby is innocent and being persecuted by nasty doctors' to 'Letby is an evil monster'. Both positions do not allow scrutiny of systemic failures and let the managers in the NHS off the hook.

If there IS a murderous nurse in the NHS, safeguarding should mean their potential for destruction is limited. But everything was made personal and not appropriately risk-based and safeguarding based.

But safeguarding in the NHS appears to have catastrophically failed and be almost non-existent now. Managers should be held to account by at least losing their jobs but my preference would also be criminal accountability. Or it will keep happening.

The doctors should not have been forced to apologise for safeguarding and doing their job even if they were wrong. They quite possibly weren't wrong but I think the emotion of now viewing Letby as a killer was allowed to cloud the reporting and unfortunately some of the evidence which is a shame most of all for the families who deserve truthful answers and the NHS to be held accountable.

OP- I get that you want her not to be guilty for reasons of your own. But you are not working with all the evidence. I don’t think it is helpful or right for people to essentially gossip about such a serious case without a mastery of the facts. She is free to appeal. And she has. The judge has found no grounds to allow an appeal. Unless there is some wildly unlikely conspiracy going on, don’t you think the judges with access to all the evidence is best placed to decide whether the conviction and investigation were done correctly?

The Guardian aren’t doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Unfortunately, distressing cases sell papers. I find it quite distasteful that a journo with no medical background is claiming there are issues with the conviction and basing this on interviews with experts that don’t have access to the trial data.

Talk to me again when someone has reviewed all the data and drawn another conclusion. Until then everything else is gossip and supposition.

I also agree.

To those saying it’s disrespectful to the families to question this I think actually it shows more respect than just accepting a conviction where these poor families who have suffered enough wrongly believe their precious children were murdered. I honestly believe there needs to be a retrial