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Employment tribunal

40 replies

NameChange101113 · 08/07/2024 06:47

Has anyone taken their employer/former employer to an employment tribunal? If so, how did you find it?

I’m currently going through the process myself…

OP posts:
maxelly · 08/07/2024 14:04

I haven't personally no, but I work in HR so deal with ETs quite frequently and think I have a reasonably good idea what it's like from the other side of the fence so for what it's worth here's my take on the experience...

-Timescales - it takes a really, really long time to get a case through if it goes all the way to a hearing, particularly if it's a complicated matter involving lots of witnesses. We're talking ~6 months in some areas just to get to a preliminary/case management stage. Most employers will take full advantage of whatever timescale the court applies and in some instances will push beyond this, e.g. if the court says file their response in 3 months, you bet your bottom dollar you're not seeing that response a day before 3 months, and sometimes it will be that on the day 3 months is up they ask for a two week extension, that goes by then you get the response a week after that and it's full of holes and doesn't answer the questions posed so you have to go back to the judge and ask again, rinse and repeat. Very frustrating for the claimant I am sure (although IMO both sets of solicitors tend to play the same game, claimant and respondent, regardless of who is actually desperate to get the claim sorted ASAP, even if both are). If you're relying on getting a substantial payout financially I really wouldn't count on actually seeing the money until years have passed even if you do win. Unjust I know but that's the reality.

-Reading and preparation - even in a relatively simple case 100s of pages of documents tend to get disclosed and there are many, many emails back and forth about the case itself. Of course not all of it is critical to the success of the case, often a lot of what adds the length is long policies full of verbiage etc or correspondence you're already familiar with or which adds little to the case, but it can still be really intimidating for claimants to see and work through and I'm sure some employers/respondents tactically 'bury' crucial evidence in as much irrelevant bumf as they can get away with. If you can afford to employ a good solicitor and barrister (check your home insurance to see if they'll cover this, or if you are in a trade union they may contribute) they will manage a lot of this for you but you'll still need to be prepared to put a fair amount of time in, especially when it comes to preparing for court. If you're going to self-represent it can really be an awful lot of work to know all the documents inside out, prepare your own case including the documents you want included and to understand the law so as to argue your case successfully. If you can't afford to pay for legal representation there are no win no fee solicitors out there, although far fewer than there used to be because there isn't much profit to be made, and some of the firms I have encountered offering this have seemed to me to be proper cowboy outfits, cutting their work to the bare bone (e.g. using lots of legal execs rather than proper solicitors to do the work, relying on the other side to prepare the bundle), taking on cases with very low likelihood of success, filling their client with hope, writing a few aggressive letters to the other side then doing a piss poor job actually representing the client or even dropping their case like a hot stone once they realise they aren't going to win (and leaving the poor client having suffered all the stress of preparation). I'm sure there are good firms still working away at this but just do be careful if you are going down the no win no fee route, look at the firm's online reviews etc and client care documentation and also understand what 'cut' of your compensation they will take if you do win, properly speaking they should get their own costs back from the other party so you shouldn't be affected but again I've heard on the grapevine of solicitors messing around here and taking their costs out of the client's compensation leaving them with very little left at the end of the day (or facing yet another legal battle with their own solicitors).

-Fairness and the law - the law doesn't always work the way you think it does and what may seem self-evidently unfair or unjust isn't always technically illegal, or even if it is illegal, doesn't mean you'll get a 'fair' settlement or your wrongs righted to your satisfaction. Even if you can't afford full representation throughout the case I really would recommend before you embark on the process finding a way to get in front of a good honest solicitor (or at least someone with employment law experience) to give you a reasonable idea of your prospects of success but also what likely compensation would look like, because simply winning the case but getting very little by way of payout can feel pretty Pyrrhic as a victory. If what you really want in your heart is to see your employer publicly shamed or other people to understand what you've been through or to receive a heartfelt apology or for lessons to be truly learnt, that's all fine and fair enough (really, I get it, despite being usually on the other side of the table myself), just understand that really isn't what the tribunal is about and it isn't by any means guaranteed that will be the outcome, or it may not be the best way to get to that outcome.

-Experience of court - this is one positive, most employment tribunals and employment lawyers and judges I've worked with are polite, reasonable people and tribunals themselves are usually conducted in a calm, cooperative way with little of the table thumping, dramatic shouts of 'objection!', showboating or aggressive cross-examination you might be led to expect from a legal process by (american) TV. A lot of hearings are virtual these days, or held in very informal courtrooms that are just like (quite shabby) meeting rooms, the judge isn't dressed up in a wig and there's no dock or jury or public balcony and although you should expect to be cross-examined by your former employer's barrister (or by someone representing them) they usually are very polite and measured albeit robust, unless the employer's case rests on proving you are lying or something (unusual, it's more usually technical points of law or process) they won't be trying to catch you out. If you are representing yourself the judge will usually go out of their way to help you and make sure your case gets put forward in the best way possible. But if your case is traumatic/upsetting and you really dread the thought of having to see your former boss again or having to go over events in public and be questioned about them, I would give serious thought to whether the tribunal route is the right one for you. There's no shame in walking away if that's the best thing for your mental health.

Overall my advice (knowing nothing of your case of course) is to try and settle for a reasonable compensation amount and/or an agreed reference or some other outcome like an apology if you possibly can - utilise ACAS' mediation service and/or use your own solicitors to negotiate this and understand what would look reasonable in terms of compensation bearing in mind your likely chances of success. If it was me I honestly think I would take quite a significantly lower settlement figure than I thought I'd get at court to save myself the stress and hassle of going through a tribunal, and that's with me having a really good level of knowledge and experience of the law so I think I'd do a good job self-representing or instructing a good solicitor. But of course it depends on so much personal detail of your case and personal circumstances so please do take proper advice (and be hesitant about listening to the views of randomers online, myself included Grin )

murasaki · 08/07/2024 14:13

Depressing, but very comprehensive and useful, thank you. I'll bear it in mind if I ever need to.

Good luck OP.

NameChange101113 · 08/07/2024 16:18

Thank you @maxelly, that was an incredibly thorough read!

My claim is regarding disability discrimination and unfair dismissal. I was dismissed due to disability-related absences, but I have other claims of the discrimination I faced too.

I actually have a comparator, who is another employee who had more sickness absences than I did, which were all general illnesses (think flu and stomach bug etc.) and not disability related at all. This person left the company and is willing to act as a witness for me.

This person was treated differently to me because despite me having fewer sickness absences than my non-disabled comparator, I was dismissed due to my disability-related absences and my comparator was not even invited to a final meeting to address their absences.

OP posts:

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BrigadierEtienneGerard · 08/07/2024 16:37

If you do settle your claim, make sure your agreement covers what will become of your pension benefits (if you are lucky enough to be in a company pension scheme that is). There's a legal case of a guy who didn't and lost what would have been a generous early retirement pension because of it.

ohyesido · 08/07/2024 16:48

It is a very long drawn out process, and you must be very aware of correct procedures.

Don’t withhold anything relevant to your case and dramatically produce it in court because it will be dismissed by the overseeing judge. The excellent post above references American dramas, it is nothing like this IRL

Be calm and keep it factual, emotional responses are always the downfall for many justified grievances that go to tribunal

NameChange101113 · 08/07/2024 16:58

ohyesido · 08/07/2024 16:48

It is a very long drawn out process, and you must be very aware of correct procedures.

Don’t withhold anything relevant to your case and dramatically produce it in court because it will be dismissed by the overseeing judge. The excellent post above references American dramas, it is nothing like this IRL

Be calm and keep it factual, emotional responses are always the downfall for many justified grievances that go to tribunal

Thank you. I’ve been bearing this in mind. I actually took a step back when I was writing my ET1 - I kept it all factual and ensured I made no reference to emotive language. I’ll continue to do this throughout the process.

OP posts:
ohyesido · 08/07/2024 17:09

NameChange101113 · 08/07/2024 16:58

Thank you. I’ve been bearing this in mind. I actually took a step back when I was writing my ET1 - I kept it all factual and ensured I made no reference to emotive language. I’ll continue to do this throughout the process.

I wish you all the best, confidence and mental stability will see you through , even if you don’t get the outcome you hope for and you have every chance that you will.

NameChange101113 · 08/07/2024 22:21

Thank you!

OP posts:
2024please · 09/07/2024 08:48

Does anyone know why the results of ETs are in the public domain?

Are people made aware of this when going through the process?

HermioneWeasley · 09/07/2024 08:50

@2024please because it is part of the British court system which is (rightly) public by default.

@NameChange101113 have they not offered a settlement?

NameChange101113 · 09/07/2024 08:54

@HermioneWeasley No, they haven’t. My ET1 is with the judge at the moment, so my former employer isn’t aware of my claim yet

OP posts:
2024please · 09/07/2024 09:07

@HermioneWeasley Thanks, I had wondered if it was that.

mybeesarealive · 09/07/2024 09:18

They will settle if it's a big enough company. It's to much hassle and a PR risk to defend disability discrimination claims. Just be reasonable about the amount of damages you require.

Startingagainandagain · 09/07/2024 09:25

Very interesting read as I am planning to do the same with my current employer!

I hope things go well for you OP and that you employer offers you a settlement.

NameChange101113 · 09/07/2024 12:35

Startingagainandagain · 09/07/2024 09:25

Very interesting read as I am planning to do the same with my current employer!

I hope things go well for you OP and that you employer offers you a settlement.

I’m sorry to hear that! Hope it goes well for you!

OP posts:
NameChange101113 · 16/07/2024 06:00

The claim has been accepted and sent to the respondent. They have until late July to respond to it

OP posts:
ohyesido · 16/07/2024 06:10

Hope you get some retribution and peace.

Startingagainandagain · 16/07/2024 09:04

Well done OP. I hope it all goes in your favour!

ClevererThanMost · 16/07/2024 09:08

What happened with ACAS concilliation?

ClevererThanMost · 16/07/2024 09:12

The comparitor sounds like a red herring.

Absences for flu etc can be significantly different to those linked to a disability. Presumably you had meetings to establish how the organisation could support your disability? If they reached the end of what they could reasonably offer and your disability was causing absence which couldn’t be tolerated that would be the reason for dismissal?

Chat may not be the best forum for this, by the way. Most HR/employment law people are on the work and legal matters boards.

SheilaFentiman · 16/07/2024 09:15

mybeesarealive · 09/07/2024 09:18

They will settle if it's a big enough company. It's to much hassle and a PR risk to defend disability discrimination claims. Just be reasonable about the amount of damages you require.

They may and they may not. Sometimes big companies progress on principle where smaller companies settle to avoid high legal fees.

CissOff · 16/07/2024 09:26

Good luck OP. If you can settle, I would.

Also work in HR and as a PP has said, it can be a long, drawn out, and brutal process to go through.

I’ve seen people take things forward to try and make their employer ‘pay’ for perceived wrongdoings, to the detriment of their mental health and finances. People forget that whilst it is personal to you, by the time you’ve gone through the ET process it could be a year or two- you’ve probably long been forgotten by the company and are being dealt with by their insurers. It can be a hollow victory, if you get one at all.

Oh and if Labour bring in Day 1 rights for workers, the ET will be so full with claims that I suspect it will take many years for matters to be heard, which will only go in the employer’s favour - they will be in a stronger position to offer lower settlements.

Good luck OP - it sounds like you’re going for the right reasons ❤️

NameChange101113 · 16/07/2024 12:28

ClevererThanMost · 16/07/2024 09:12

The comparitor sounds like a red herring.

Absences for flu etc can be significantly different to those linked to a disability. Presumably you had meetings to establish how the organisation could support your disability? If they reached the end of what they could reasonably offer and your disability was causing absence which couldn’t be tolerated that would be the reason for dismissal?

Chat may not be the best forum for this, by the way. Most HR/employment law people are on the work and legal matters boards.

Thank you.

My comparator wasn’t invited to a stage 3 meeting after having 18 days of absences over the course of 9-10 months for general illnesses (dental issues and upset stomach etc.), let alone was dismissed for their absences.

The point I’m trying to make is that I was dismissed due to disability-related absences. I had 15 days of absences (including an hospital admission via ambulance) over two and a half years and was dismissed for it. Thus, highlighting my differential treatment due to my disabilities.

My former employer asked me to consider reducing my hours, but as I was on minimum wage - I couldn’t afford to do that. I asked for some of my disability-related absences to be grouped together twice, but they refused and stated that they had to “treat everyone in the same, fair way.”

My former employer did not consider moving me to a different role either, for example a few days before I was dismissed, an office role was advertised. If they had considered moving me, they would have found out I have previous experience working in an admin capacity.

I don’t believe they exhausted their resources to assist me.

OP posts:
NameChange101113 · 16/07/2024 12:33

CissOff · 16/07/2024 09:26

Good luck OP. If you can settle, I would.

Also work in HR and as a PP has said, it can be a long, drawn out, and brutal process to go through.

I’ve seen people take things forward to try and make their employer ‘pay’ for perceived wrongdoings, to the detriment of their mental health and finances. People forget that whilst it is personal to you, by the time you’ve gone through the ET process it could be a year or two- you’ve probably long been forgotten by the company and are being dealt with by their insurers. It can be a hollow victory, if you get one at all.

Oh and if Labour bring in Day 1 rights for workers, the ET will be so full with claims that I suspect it will take many years for matters to be heard, which will only go in the employer’s favour - they will be in a stronger position to offer lower settlements.

Good luck OP - it sounds like you’re going for the right reasons ❤️

Thank you. I've already received the dates for the preliminary hearing and final hearings.

OP posts:
ClevererThanMost · 16/07/2024 12:35

NameChange101113 · 16/07/2024 12:28

Thank you.

My comparator wasn’t invited to a stage 3 meeting after having 18 days of absences over the course of 9-10 months for general illnesses (dental issues and upset stomach etc.), let alone was dismissed for their absences.

The point I’m trying to make is that I was dismissed due to disability-related absences. I had 15 days of absences (including an hospital admission via ambulance) over two and a half years and was dismissed for it. Thus, highlighting my differential treatment due to my disabilities.

My former employer asked me to consider reducing my hours, but as I was on minimum wage - I couldn’t afford to do that. I asked for some of my disability-related absences to be grouped together twice, but they refused and stated that they had to “treat everyone in the same, fair way.”

My former employer did not consider moving me to a different role either, for example a few days before I was dismissed, an office role was advertised. If they had considered moving me, they would have found out I have previous experience working in an admin capacity.

I don’t believe they exhausted their resources to assist me.

In that case I wish you well with your case.

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