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Mother admits ending sons life

277 replies

vacay · 03/07/2024 11:21

apple.news/AdFP-kitNRnSVPSjVgV0T_w

I'm not sure how I feel about this?
On the one hand she didn't want to see her son suffer anymore. But surely a 7 year old when he asked his mom to take the pain away didn't mean to end his life?

Sorry if there is already a thread going I haven't checked

OP posts:
ExpatAl · 04/07/2024 18:04

My husband and I held our son and told him it was okay to go. We didn’t have to make her decision. The poor boy and poor mum.

GoodHeavens99 · 04/07/2024 18:04

ExpatAl · 04/07/2024 18:04

My husband and I held our son and told him it was okay to go. We didn’t have to make her decision. The poor boy and poor mum.

I'm so sorry...x

Lyraloo · 04/07/2024 19:34

vacay · 03/07/2024 11:21

apple.news/AdFP-kitNRnSVPSjVgV0T_w

I'm not sure how I feel about this?
On the one hand she didn't want to see her son suffer anymore. But surely a 7 year old when he asked his mom to take the pain away didn't mean to end his life?

Sorry if there is already a thread going I haven't checked

But he was dying anyway! It’s not as if he had any chance of getting better, that would be a different story. Knowing what she knew, could you keep letting your child suffer like that, bear in mind back in 1981 cancer treatments were worse as was pain relief etc

croydon15 · 04/07/2024 19:59

Poor woman it's heartbreaking to see someone you love suffer and you are unable to ease their suffering especially a young child,.what she did was selfless and she definitely should not be prosecuted; she has cancer herself so what would be the point of a prosecution totally inhuman, she has suffered enough.

JuneShowers24 · 04/07/2024 20:06

Iheartmysmart · 04/07/2024 17:47

The specialist palliative care team saw my Nan on a Friday morning and she was moved to a side room. We were told she had around 24 hours. She lived for six days with no food or water, we were allowed to moisten her lips but that was all. Six days for a 96 year old woman to die. It was horrific, I will never forget her death rattle and distress. Absolutely inhumane.

Similar to my grandad who had dementia. He starved to death, groaning over a period of a week or so. He was writhing and groaning in pain. Almost ignored by staff (what could they do?) it was such an undignified end. I wouldn’t want to experience that.

Also had a close friend die of cancer recently, she said she had lived a good life and wished she could “pick a moment” to slip away by choice. Rather than the 4 day wait we had to watch her pass in hospice.

JuneShowers24 · 04/07/2024 20:07

ExpatAl · 04/07/2024 18:04

My husband and I held our son and told him it was okay to go. We didn’t have to make her decision. The poor boy and poor mum.

I’m sorry for your loss.

Iheartmysmart · 04/07/2024 20:20

@JuneShowers24 It’s awful isn’t it. Such an awful way to die. My mum is so traumatised after witnessing their deaths that she’s put together a suicide pack to use should she ever be in that position. I wouldn’t hesitate to help her if necessary.

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 04/07/2024 20:25

heinzseight · 03/07/2024 11:36

Gosh that's upsetting reading. I think most mothers would do the same for a terminally ill child in great pain.

I wouldn't. I could never kill my own child, or anyone for that matter. I can't believe so many mothers on here are saying they would. Palliative care has come a long way since this lady's son died and should always be the preferred option.

PetuniaT · 04/07/2024 20:25

It's against the law and for very good reasons no matter who was involved.

SoupDragon · 04/07/2024 20:35

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 04/07/2024 20:25

I wouldn't. I could never kill my own child, or anyone for that matter. I can't believe so many mothers on here are saying they would. Palliative care has come a long way since this lady's son died and should always be the preferred option.

Edited

Palliative care has come a long way since this lady's son died and should always be the preferred option.

It's still horrific and inhumane even now.

Devonbabs · 04/07/2024 20:53

I support this mother 100% - imagine what she went through. I’m normally good at seeing all sides but I really can’t see how anyone couldn’t support her (unless on religious grounds- then I would judge that religion for allowing a child to suffer. Cancer in 1981 was even worse than today in that we have better medication now)

TheSlimmingFoodie · 04/07/2024 21:44

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 04/07/2024 20:25

I wouldn't. I could never kill my own child, or anyone for that matter. I can't believe so many mothers on here are saying they would. Palliative care has come a long way since this lady's son died and should always be the preferred option.

Edited

This

Grammarnut · 04/07/2024 21:48

JuneShowers24 · 04/07/2024 15:56

@Grammarnut i don’t think the law goes far enough and I don’t think overprescribing pain killers is as routine as you make it sound. Probably in a hospice setting, but unlikely elsewhere.

I have recently been in a hospice situation and as you say pain medication was given. I think it is far less frequent in hospital settings - though that was not the impression I had when with someone in an Intensive Therapy Unit. Ex-BiL, who is GP, says not enough pain relief is given because of the fear of causing death. But it seems this is something that some GPs/hospital doctors do and some don't?

Ap42 · 04/07/2024 22:28

What a selfless thing to do. Fully support this lady.

T1Dmama · 04/07/2024 22:50

Brave lady..
I totally agree with legalising it, it should be allowed for people with terminal diagnosis’… people with say ‘less than 6 months to live’…. There should be VERY strict guidelines in place though

Mamanyt · 05/07/2024 00:20

Here in the USA, there are several States who have "Death With Dignity" laws. I have made my sons promise that, should it come to it, they will get me to one of those states and see to it that I don't linger in intractable pain. If they back out of that, I'll do my best to do it myself.

Havinganamechange · 05/07/2024 07:26

I hope I’m never in a place where I have to make this choice, god bless them both.

Annierob · 05/07/2024 07:52

I really feel for this mother. Must have been so hard to watch her son suffering and pain relief would have been poorer then.
Also, she must have suffered emotionally after the decision. I have taken two dogs to the vet who needed their lives ended because they were dying. For both it was very peaceful. However, I still felt enormous guilt for taking them even though it was the right thing to do.
This mum has my sympathy. She has cancer herself now so hopefully there will not be action taken against her.

DreadPirateRobots · 05/07/2024 08:03

I wouldn't. I could never kill my own child, or anyone for that matter. I can't believe so many mothers on here are saying they would.

He was dying. Very very soon, whatever she did. The only question left was how much he suffered in that time period, and she acted as she did because he was suffering, with terrible unmanaged pain, despite palliative care. Her son's cancer killed him, not her.

I have no trouble understanding how a mother could do it, if they have the means. I would protect my child against pointless suffering, without hesitation.

People sometimes act in these discussions like death is avoidable and might not have happened to that person at all, ever. All of us are dying. All of us will die. Yes, it's a tragedy if someone loses forty years of good life that they wanted to live by dying prematurely. But anyone who has any real experience of end of life knows that death is often a gift, one which all too often comes later than it should.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/07/2024 08:26

Annierob · 05/07/2024 07:52

I really feel for this mother. Must have been so hard to watch her son suffering and pain relief would have been poorer then.
Also, she must have suffered emotionally after the decision. I have taken two dogs to the vet who needed their lives ended because they were dying. For both it was very peaceful. However, I still felt enormous guilt for taking them even though it was the right thing to do.
This mum has my sympathy. She has cancer herself now so hopefully there will not be action taken against her.

With dogs the only guilt I’ve felt was for not taking them earlier and having them suffer unnecessarily while I was hoping against hope.

And I realise that comparing dogs to humans and a situation like this might seem offensive to some, but suffering is a great leveller.

TamarasCDScrunchie · 05/07/2024 10:06

Neuroblastoma diagnosed in under-2 year olds has a cure rate of about 90% with the right treatment. Neuroblastoma diagnosed in any child over 2 years of age has a cure rate of about 10% in the long term.

It is very rare for an older child with Neuroblastoma to live a long healthy life as most of the time it will return at some point. Hamish was already unfortunately in the wrong age bracket despite the excellent results seen in Neuroblastoma treatment under the age of 2, with the odds greatly stacked against him.

Stage 4 is terminal. Neuroblastoma behaves in a fairly predictable way when it is terminal - it spreads to any organ in the body it likes, and quickly grows bigger. It causes pain, pressure within organs / bones where there is little space to accommodate extra tumour growths. It grows under the skin, in the mouth and throat etc. New lumps can appear within hours if you watch. All these new tumour lumps are painful, and they can ulcerate because they expand too quickly for the overlying skin to accommodate.

A child with stage 4 neuroblastoma would not have been a thin and tired little child saying that he has an ouchie somewhere inside his body. You would most likely be able to see the tumours that are causing the pain. It would be almost constant suffering.

The child may still have some respite if the pain medication is at a correct dose - there may be periods of childish joy playing with toys / watching tv/ interacting with others, but most of the days of Stage 4 neuroblastoma will be spent in a degree of pain. And it will steadily increase because without treatment, neuroblastoma doesn’t hover at a stable state.

I don’t know if these moments of joy in between all the suffering are sufficient to make me think that the child still has a decent quality of life. I don’t believe at this stage that the quality of life can be considered human. Parents looking after a child in this stage of illness may go through the motions very well and appear to be in control of all aspects of looking after the child - feeding, medication, washing, toileting, turning, changing, comforting. However there will also be feelings of helplessness and guilt very often, for seeing their child to go through the indignity and discomfort.

This mother has been brave and unselfish. She put her child first, and did a very kind and humane thing, probably one of the very few remaining good things she would have been able to do for her child at that time.

even if she hadn’t a diagnosis of cancer herself, and even if 40 years had not passed since, I would still believe that she has not done anything wrong. I know exactly which way I would vote as a juror in cases like this.

Prawncow · 05/07/2024 11:07

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 04/07/2024 20:25

I wouldn't. I could never kill my own child, or anyone for that matter. I can't believe so many mothers on here are saying they would. Palliative care has come a long way since this lady's son died and should always be the preferred option.

Edited

It’s an incredibly selfless love. To do that, knowing that you’ll never forgive yourself, because it’s the best thing for your child.

Pemba · 05/07/2024 11:53

TamarasCDScrunchie · 05/07/2024 10:06

Neuroblastoma diagnosed in under-2 year olds has a cure rate of about 90% with the right treatment. Neuroblastoma diagnosed in any child over 2 years of age has a cure rate of about 10% in the long term.

It is very rare for an older child with Neuroblastoma to live a long healthy life as most of the time it will return at some point. Hamish was already unfortunately in the wrong age bracket despite the excellent results seen in Neuroblastoma treatment under the age of 2, with the odds greatly stacked against him.

Stage 4 is terminal. Neuroblastoma behaves in a fairly predictable way when it is terminal - it spreads to any organ in the body it likes, and quickly grows bigger. It causes pain, pressure within organs / bones where there is little space to accommodate extra tumour growths. It grows under the skin, in the mouth and throat etc. New lumps can appear within hours if you watch. All these new tumour lumps are painful, and they can ulcerate because they expand too quickly for the overlying skin to accommodate.

A child with stage 4 neuroblastoma would not have been a thin and tired little child saying that he has an ouchie somewhere inside his body. You would most likely be able to see the tumours that are causing the pain. It would be almost constant suffering.

The child may still have some respite if the pain medication is at a correct dose - there may be periods of childish joy playing with toys / watching tv/ interacting with others, but most of the days of Stage 4 neuroblastoma will be spent in a degree of pain. And it will steadily increase because without treatment, neuroblastoma doesn’t hover at a stable state.

I don’t know if these moments of joy in between all the suffering are sufficient to make me think that the child still has a decent quality of life. I don’t believe at this stage that the quality of life can be considered human. Parents looking after a child in this stage of illness may go through the motions very well and appear to be in control of all aspects of looking after the child - feeding, medication, washing, toileting, turning, changing, comforting. However there will also be feelings of helplessness and guilt very often, for seeing their child to go through the indignity and discomfort.

This mother has been brave and unselfish. She put her child first, and did a very kind and humane thing, probably one of the very few remaining good things she would have been able to do for her child at that time.

even if she hadn’t a diagnosis of cancer herself, and even if 40 years had not passed since, I would still believe that she has not done anything wrong. I know exactly which way I would vote as a juror in cases like this.

Jesus Christ Sad

RaspberryIce · 05/07/2024 12:31

TamarasCDScrunchie · 05/07/2024 10:06

Neuroblastoma diagnosed in under-2 year olds has a cure rate of about 90% with the right treatment. Neuroblastoma diagnosed in any child over 2 years of age has a cure rate of about 10% in the long term.

It is very rare for an older child with Neuroblastoma to live a long healthy life as most of the time it will return at some point. Hamish was already unfortunately in the wrong age bracket despite the excellent results seen in Neuroblastoma treatment under the age of 2, with the odds greatly stacked against him.

Stage 4 is terminal. Neuroblastoma behaves in a fairly predictable way when it is terminal - it spreads to any organ in the body it likes, and quickly grows bigger. It causes pain, pressure within organs / bones where there is little space to accommodate extra tumour growths. It grows under the skin, in the mouth and throat etc. New lumps can appear within hours if you watch. All these new tumour lumps are painful, and they can ulcerate because they expand too quickly for the overlying skin to accommodate.

A child with stage 4 neuroblastoma would not have been a thin and tired little child saying that he has an ouchie somewhere inside his body. You would most likely be able to see the tumours that are causing the pain. It would be almost constant suffering.

The child may still have some respite if the pain medication is at a correct dose - there may be periods of childish joy playing with toys / watching tv/ interacting with others, but most of the days of Stage 4 neuroblastoma will be spent in a degree of pain. And it will steadily increase because without treatment, neuroblastoma doesn’t hover at a stable state.

I don’t know if these moments of joy in between all the suffering are sufficient to make me think that the child still has a decent quality of life. I don’t believe at this stage that the quality of life can be considered human. Parents looking after a child in this stage of illness may go through the motions very well and appear to be in control of all aspects of looking after the child - feeding, medication, washing, toileting, turning, changing, comforting. However there will also be feelings of helplessness and guilt very often, for seeing their child to go through the indignity and discomfort.

This mother has been brave and unselfish. She put her child first, and did a very kind and humane thing, probably one of the very few remaining good things she would have been able to do for her child at that time.

even if she hadn’t a diagnosis of cancer herself, and even if 40 years had not passed since, I would still believe that she has not done anything wrong. I know exactly which way I would vote as a juror in cases like this.

Thank you for sharing your knowledge of it. I believe she did the best thing for her son to end his suffering.

Alltheyearround · 08/07/2024 15:22

If it ever became law, then there would be procedures designed to take into account evidence and make a decision beyond reasonable doubt e.g. it would be like the Alfie case, but where a family/patient was petitioning for a controlled end of life. Hospitals already make these decisions along with the family if it is clear that someone has no chance of recovery.

I agree there would have to be strong legal protection to make sure hospitals, local authorities or family didn't act against the interest of the patient. Impartial and independent witnesses would need to be able to have a say.

Safeguarding is built into things like LPA for health/money. I don't think its beyond us to have decent legislation which can help families and professionals weigh up not prolonging end of life suffering for terminal diseases and the wish to protect those people from the unscrupulous/those looking at the patient in terms of monetary gains.

It would take time and thought, but I believe it could be done.