Relocating to London from Munich, Germany

[guhgoi]

Hello everyone! After a couple of weeks browsing through this platform, I was amazed by how collaborative y'all seemed to be!

Long story short: We may be relocating to London from Munich over the next few months but understanding the nuances of such a move can be overwhelming. To give y'all some context: we're a family of 4 (the older one is 3.5 years old and the younger is 2 months old).

Despite the tax system (which takes an enormous amount of money), everything works really well here in Munich, Germany. We're absolutely in love with the kindergarten - which happens to be subsidized by the government, which means we pay like, 100 EUR a month (our daughter stays from 08 am - 14:30 PM). Public transportation is affordable (60 EUR a month and can go literally anywhere). Rent is absolutely ridiculous here (we pay 2500 EUR) for a 102 sq meter apartment (2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms). We managed to save quite a bit of money and only I work (my wife decided to take a long break to learn Germany, help the kids, etc).

Why are we considering moving to London?

1. the social aspect. We've been living here in Germany for 6+ years but it's hard to connect with people.

2. Me and my wife - we're both from Sao Paulo, Brazil and we LOVE London. Although we love the access to the nature here in Munich, the vibe of a big city, the variety (generally speaking) is something we miss.

What I need help with:

1) If we were to move to the UK with our little ones, what areas would you recommend? We're willing to commute for over an hour to get to Central London, depending upon the opportunity 1h30 min. The deciding factor (as of now) is to find the best public education for our kids (something we don't have to care about as much here in Munich, to be really honest)...

2. Based on your recommendations, can we find a 3 bedroom + 2 fully equipped bath for under 3k pounds?* *I got an offer or 180k pounds.

3. What should we know about the education system in the UK?

4. With this salary (180k pounds a year), can we go out as a family 2/3 times a month?

5. any other thing you'd like to highlight?

I can thank you enough y'all.

Bless up

Cost of living there is similar to London, rents are insane for anywhere near the centre or in popular family areas.

Some of these responses. I’m as moany about the UK as any British person but London is still an amazing place. OP just wants some recommendations and clearly doesn’t want to stay in Munich/Germany or they wouldn’t have asked.

Things have changed a lot since then!

amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/oct/14/its-the-same-daily-misery-germanys-terrible-trains-are-no-joke-for-a-nation-built-on-efficiency

Are you mad? Stay in Germany. Why would you throw all that away? Just hop over for city breaks.

Childcare is so expensive that I couldn't go back to working full time. I've had a bad experience with state schools, and couldn't afford private.

Also, I think that in order to have a career in London, it's necessary to have a level of dedication that I couldn't afford (mentally and time wise) with young kids (I was in an abusive marriage with no family support. Of course it made things even harder).

Before I had kids I was doing fine career wise, after I had them I didn't have the mental space to dedicate myself to work as I would like. Professionally speaking, the bar tends to be lower in other cities. At least that's my experience.

if the OP can get a decent salary as the original post would suggest then would have no problem buying.

You can always rely on mumsnet to be relentlessly negative about the UK. Yes, it's currently a shitshow, but Germany has gone downhill a lot in recent years as well. As already mentioned, the trains manage the impressive achievement of being worse than in the UK. And if you have a fond belief in German efficiency...you're going to be shocked at the bureaucracy. And don't expect to be able to get much of it done online.

And finally, London and Munich are completely different and each has a very different appeal. Munich is affluent, pretty and clean, but also quite conservative and (IMO) dull.

Oh please don’t do it, or at least wait a few years. I’d pay good money to be in Germany in your position, currently the uk will just disappoint you. It might improve o er the next years, I’d wait and see in your shoes.

I’m not disappointed. I like it in the UK. It’s not perfect but my experience is not a total shower of shit, it’s very nice. My DC’s school is very low ranked in league tables and am sure many people would run screaming but in our experience it’s been fine too. How many of the people weeping and wailing have actually lived in other countries recently?

My brother has lived in Munich for many years and he found it took ages to make friends, the population isn't as mobile as it is here and colleagues were happy to stick with friends from school, they didn't expect to be friends with their colleagues. The majority of his friends are not German. I think socially you would benefit from being in the UK.

Do you have an European nationality?If not would you qualify for German nationality seeing that you’ve lived there for 6years? If so I would say to apply for the nationality because you will be able to go back without needing a work permit to Germany and the whole of Europe. I have friends who moved to the U.K. and now can’t go back to Europe without a work permit. They miss where they lived but need a job to go back but being third country nationals they need a work permit and it’s difficult.

The rise of the far right in Germany feels alarming to some migrants there - my brother & his wife are considering moving to London from Berlin & this is one of the factors as a mixed race couple.

This is a really good suggestion to apply for citizenship as it would give you lots of options for the future. Assuming you would qualify to apply after 5 years and not 8, you would have to stay put until it is all sorted which could be 18-24 months at the moment.
I can understand the wish to move, I've lived in a different German city for over 20 years and things are not like they used to be. The political situation is not great and we seem to be very far behind in terms of modernisation/digitalisation. Munich is a very pretty but expensive city with a very conservative local government.

Another German here who's lives in the UK for many years but visiting family back home regularly.

As others have said, things in Germany are not as they used to be. An aging population, declining birth rates, huge payments to the EU, mass immigration etc have all had a huge impact. Trains are indeed terrible and have become a bit of a joke.

I also agree that as Brazilians, you're more likely to be welcomed in the UK, especially a large city like London, than in Bavaria. The mass immigration has led to a dislike of foreigners and a massive rise in the AFD party.

I love living just outside London - we have a great life with lots of international friends. If you earn a decent salary, you can have a great time in the UK!

How many of the people weeping and wailing have actually lived in other countries recently?

Exactly!

I'm shocked how some posters suggest that the living conditions in some other countries are 'so much higher than in the UK' without ever having lived there

Also, personal circumstances vary - as a Brazilian couple you'll have a different experience than a German couple, and if you have a high salary you'll have a different experience (especially in UK) than a low one. Etc etc

I would move to London, maybe East London - look into trendier parts, pockets near good schools, local "villages". You have a good salary so I think you can live fairly comfortably. I find East London more fun and better suited for young families.

In general, I would suggest researching/ looking into good primary/ secondary schools catchment areas and moving there. Rent is a nightmare but maybe you could afford to buy something? I know its not a done thing in Germany but in London its actually sometimes cheaper and much more secure to pay mortgage.

Schools, as I said - depends on the school. There ae some amazing comprehensive schools but they usually have a tiny catchment and you need to live within a 300-400m of them.

Transport is fine, reliable and London buses are amazing, they go literally anywhere. But it will not be as cheap as German option. Probably twice as the cost.

Worst thing is the early years childcare. Its basically like taking out a second mortgage. Sooooo expensive. If you can avoid that - great! (wife at home, you can be flexible, have family, etc) If not, I would actually stay in Germany until your kids start school. But even then, you will need to have after school care so need to consider that (schools have extended day but its only till 6-ish, would not work if your own job is finishes at 6 and you have an hour to get home).

We want to move the other way, from U.K. to Munich!!!
I really wouldn't move here to be honest, we can't wait to leave, it's not a great country at the moment

I realised you asked about the Uk education system.

state education is 4-18. Year reception is age 4-5, the year a child turns 5. Then Year’s 1-2 are the infant years, knows as key stage 1. The largest class size allowed is 39 children and one qualified teacher. Then Years 3-6 are junior classes, Key Stage 6. Then the transfer to secondary school (age 11-16 or if it had a 6th form for A levels, 11-18). After year 2, class sizes vary, 36 being the biggest so far my oldest child has been in a class of.

after 16, what a student chooses to do depends on their academic ability to some extent. GCSE’s are in Yr 11, and if high enough grades are achieved students may choose to take A Levels. Otherwise there are a range of courses, usually in colleges or apprenticeships if successful in applying,

if go to a private school, class sizes are usually smaller and some schools are 3-18, some are prep schools until end of yr 8. Some are 13-18 aged. Fees vary but rise each year.