Relocating to London from Munich, Germany

[guhgoi]

Hello everyone! After a couple of weeks browsing through this platform, I was amazed by how collaborative y'all seemed to be!

Long story short: We may be relocating to London from Munich over the next few months but understanding the nuances of such a move can be overwhelming. To give y'all some context: we're a family of 4 (the older one is 3.5 years old and the younger is 2 months old).

Despite the tax system (which takes an enormous amount of money), everything works really well here in Munich, Germany. We're absolutely in love with the kindergarten - which happens to be subsidized by the government, which means we pay like, 100 EUR a month (our daughter stays from 08 am - 14:30 PM). Public transportation is affordable (60 EUR a month and can go literally anywhere). Rent is absolutely ridiculous here (we pay 2500 EUR) for a 102 sq meter apartment (2 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms). We managed to save quite a bit of money and only I work (my wife decided to take a long break to learn Germany, help the kids, etc).

Why are we considering moving to London?

1. the social aspect. We've been living here in Germany for 6+ years but it's hard to connect with people.

2. Me and my wife - we're both from Sao Paulo, Brazil and we LOVE London. Although we love the access to the nature here in Munich, the vibe of a big city, the variety (generally speaking) is something we miss.

What I need help with:

1) If we were to move to the UK with our little ones, what areas would you recommend? We're willing to commute for over an hour to get to Central London, depending upon the opportunity 1h30 min. The deciding factor (as of now) is to find the best public education for our kids (something we don't have to care about as much here in Munich, to be really honest)...

2. Based on your recommendations, can we find a 3 bedroom + 2 fully equipped bath for under 3k pounds?* *I got an offer or 180k pounds.

3. What should we know about the education system in the UK?

4. With this salary (180k pounds a year), can we go out as a family 2/3 times a month?

5. any other thing you'd like to highlight?

I can thank you enough y'all.

Bless up

And you can navigate the waiting lists, difficulty in getting a GP appointment and hope to God you don't need to visit A&E, ours is appealing for people NOT to go as they are too busy.
This is a brand new shiny flagship A&E that was opened a couple of months ago and is around half the size of the previous one.

Don't do it.

The English are really not that friendly and I say that as an English woman who lived there for years and sent my dcs to primary school there.

Don't expect to make friends easily.

You'd be in for a real shock regarding quality of schools and housing too. It's just all a bit shit imo.

Have just been in Munich. We were supposed to get a train from the central station this was changed to leave at another station and we had to get another train to get there from a different platform. There were no written signs to indicate this and the message on the platform continued to state the original train information, DH realised there was an issue just by being observant.

Can you move somewhere more international in Europe or Germany itself?

OP, can you get a job in Edinburgh instead? I assume a lot of people on this thread must live or have lived in London and they clearly don’t like it. Edinburgh isn’t perfect but it’s a lovely place to live.

The English are really not that friendly and I say that as an English woman who lived there for years and sent my dcs to primary school there.

Speak for yourself.

There is a very large Brazilian community in Stockwell, which is in south London and about 30mins commute into central. I just had a quick look on rightmove though and i think you would struggle to rent a 3bed on £3k per month in that area but it might be worth looking to see if there are any local Brazilian groups on FB, who might be able to offer advice as well?

Agree with pp that childcare costs in London are huge - we pay around £80 per day and you wouldn't be eligible for any government funded hours. So make sure that is factored into your calculations.

Are you talking about London?
I relocate people from overseas to The North and most of them love how friendly and welcoming people here are

Without being presumptuous-how easy is it for you to move here visa wise or is this work sponsorship?? A lot of Brazilians used to use Portuguese passports but post brexit that's not much use

Oh and I wouldn't bother- Munich is way better with a family for housing and childcare - I like both- but London is hard going with kids especially if you don't own a property and aren't actually rich (I've lived there a few times in that position)

OP ignore everyone being negative.

London is a great place to live - very different to Munich, and on £180k you have a better chance than most of having a decent quality of life.

Does your partner work? That probably impacts the financial situation quite significantly.

1. Childcare will be c. £2k a month per child if used full time.
2. Rent for a 2-3 bed will be anywhere from £2-4k for something pretty ordinary.

Beyond that - food and travel are pretty affordable.

Council tax, household bills excl. food probably cost me £600 a month.

Do you mean you want to buy somewhere for 300k and 3 bedrooms?

I think in your shoes I would aim to live fairly centrally so as to get the benefit of living in a city and not spending half your life on trains. It will also make juggling kids and work much easier.
I wouldn't be looking at anywhere over an hour from London as tbh trains in the UK are awful. There are commuter lines which have only one or two trains an hour and this does not make for an easy life, and commuting is very expensive.

If you are not paying school fees you'll be able to afford a decent flat somewhere inside zones 1-4, with a shorter (cheaper) commute. Schools in London are generally much better than those outside as they have had more funding and in many (admittedly more expensive) areas they are really very good.

Where in London is your new job based? This matters as it could hugely affect commuting times and consequently the best places to live.

I thought that too. Can you just rock-up here and start using public services just like that ?. I guess that depends on the skills you bring with you and if you have a confirmed and permanent job. It's just I have friends from the US and they had to jump through hoops to live in London. And of course it depends where in London, - there are whole areas I wouldn't step foot in in broad day-light.

Personally, I'd stay where you are.

I did also wonder whether a move to London is possible.
Most of my clients are sponsored by their Employer and even then its not a quick or easy process

German here. You're out of touch with reality to whine claim the tax system takes an "enormous amount of money" from you. As a higher earner with a non-working spouse, on the contrary the ridiculously unfair German tax splitting system is subsidizing you to a massive extent, at the expense of lower to middle income single people including single parents. It's the latter group that regularly puts Germany in place 1 or 2 of the OECD tax wedge table, whereas old-fashioned single-earner families like yours are actually taxed way below international average once you add in pension and other social contributions - and that's by design, not by accident. I'm acquainted with a German Brazilian family who did indeed leave partly due to taxes- but that was because the system's so skewed they were better off, before childcare, without the wife working and it made her utterly miserable!

At your life stage I wouldn’t move to London. The quality of life and standard of living is so much lower in England compared to Germany. Sure you pay high taxes in Germany but you get a lot back from it. On your income in England you will still pay high taxes but also still pay ridiculous amounts for transport and childcare and most likely struggling to access reliable healthcare/dental care. Germans also know how to build houses that doesn’t get mouldy and freezing in the winter months. I have lived in 4 apartments/houses in the UK and none were mould free. Heating them was extraordinarily expensive due to poor insulation.

i can see though that Munich isn’t particularly exciting to live in, I have only been there once and found it exceptionally unexciting, but maybe you can move elsewhere in Germany or to somewhere else in the EU?

If you're from São Paulo, would Berlin be an option? (In case you're missing the big city vibes). Does your wife plan to get back to work?

If not, London might work out. If she wants/needs to work, it will be very tough in London with young kids.

I'm from a big city in Brazil as well, found life in Germany very boring. But London was impossible with small kids. And don't count on the state schools.

I'm now in another European city. I may go back to London after my kids are grown up. Or maybe not.

Cost of childcare is insane.

Two children in nursery might cost you £4,000 a month.

Was last in Munich in 2008 and don't remember it being a shambles. I found the U Bahn and other public transport very efficient and affordable.

Oh dear😬

I know Munich and it is an aging and quite conservative place

I'm also from Munich but have lived in the UK for over 20 years.

As you're both Brazilian and have a very high income, I would definitely move to London if you're looking for a more diverse and open minded community!

Yes, Germany runs some aspects more efficiently than the UK, but Germans, especially in Bavaria, are quite conservative and not terribly friendly towards foreigners.

If you have a good salary (you do!) then you'll have a great time in a city like London or Manchester! Schools vary by area but you always have the option of some excellent private schools at Secondary level!