I don't know how to handle this situation with DD& food

[RenegadeMister]

Without causing a whole host of issues down the line. I'm posting in chat rather than AIBU as I'm feeling a bit sad/sensitive about this issue.
DD (7) is on the 98th percentile for both height and weight. She eats excellent meals, even by MN standards, but I realised the snacking and puddings had got out of hand and started making some subtle but sensible changes- no chocolate/sweets during the week, maybe an ice lolly or sugar free jelly after dinner, knocked off sugary cereal and we've switched to brown bread and pasta. Also increased exercise where possible.
I've never bribed with food, I don't use food as a reward and don't demonise any food. Everything in moderation, just ensuring there actually is some moderation now. She sees me eating healthily, exercising and not eating much if any 'treat' food.
So instead she's sneaking junk. I've found wrappers and I know there's other stuff missing. Simple solution is not to have it in the house- seems a shame, but it's doable. The trouble is it also doesn't teach her anything. I don't want to draw attention to weight but she's noticing she's bigger than other children, it can't be good for her teeth (clean bill of health from the dentist for now) or health and I don't like the sneakiness.
How do I handle this without sowing seeds of unhealthy attitudes towards food/body image?
Other people giving/offering sweets, chocolate, ice cream etc is a whole other issue- it's insidious and everything seems to come back to food!- but I want to start at home. Any tips greatly received!

Thanks @RandomMess yes she sleeps well (I think?!) generally gets about 9-10 hours solid a night, which feels miraculous as she was a very restless baby.

@MeinKraft I agree completely- I think I've been a bit soft about this. When I've asked her about clubs she's pulled a face and said she didn't fancy it- except art club- so I didn't push for her to try. I think she'd love football or rugby or cricket if she just tried it! I think I'll book in a bunch of taster sessions at different things and see if anything grabs her.

It's frustrating because her meals are good. It's just the shit in between/after. But that's my fault, for having it/allowing it/normalising it I suppose.

1. I agree so much unhealthy foods and snacks about. It is everywhere. I know as I have always avoided it all my life, so I notice.
2. You say: It's frustrating because her meals are good. It's just the shit in between/after. But that's my fault, for having it/allowing it/normalising it I suppose.

-Do you have healthy dessert like yoghurt, fruits etc daily?

3.I consider myself as very lucky as my mother is a doctor. I was brought up to understand that the body needs healthy, home cooked nutritious food. We only had sweets etc at xmas, birthdays - so very rarely. SO the whole family grew up on three cooked meals with healthy dessert. Even if I visited friends at theirs, I just understood that I want milk, fruits etc etc and even when I would enjoy a piece of cake as it was offered, I looked at it as a treat.
So, I can only recommend the family, all, being healthy 24/7 even when you are out and about. No issue grabbing fruits on your way from a day out, instead of running to the ice-cream stall. Even on holiday just focus on being healthy. When you are healthy 80% of the time, the 20% when odd treats are consumed, it will even out. So promote healthy eating and healthy lifestyle. Yes, sometimes I find my healthy food boring but it is all I am used to and really want. Greasy food is just too rich for my tastebuds so I wouldn't finish a plateful of it, let alone eat it regularly.

Good luck.
Oh, mum only ever said sweets and sweet things are not good for my teeth. No weight was discussed but I was always sporty and normal weight.

You're not alone, most of us allow the junk snacks, I know I do! Some people get away with it and some don't and put on weight. At least the world is moving forward with how overweight and obese is viewed and treated. There's something in her brain wiring that's pushing these cravings and it's not as simple as parents of slimmer kids are doing something better than you.

There's something in her brain wiring that's pushing these cravings and it's not as simple as parents of slimmer kids are doing something better than you.

That is the point I wanted to make. Brain wiring. My brain is wired to crave bland, boring, healthy and nutritious food as I was raised on it. Hence I don't judge. Hence the plea to promote healthy eating for whole family 24/7. Odd snacks will not defeat that- trust me on it. Even when flying 1st class so feel I need to eat my ticket- I would still only nibble on the sweet stuff or go for cheese. It is a lifestyle and your kids will thank you later.

I have seen how some French parents raise their kids for the future- everything in moderation no ifs or buts. My mum came close to the French!

I was a tall baby and child.

l started puberty at 9 and periods at 12. I was taller than all my peers. I then grew another 2 inches and continued to be taller than my peers. I still am.

Here’s another consideration. Girls whose fathers die or are absent also start puberty earlier. Mine died when l was 7.

Dd entered puberty at 10 and started periods just before her 14th birthday. Her father is still around. She’s 6ft.

But so was l. We never had stuff in.

Ive got a terrible sweet tooth. I blame it on the fact that we never had it in our house. So l want it constantly.

That's the thing. It is about balance and maybe luck. From age 12, I had independent money as was in boarding school, but just stuck with healthy foods and occasional treats. I also had a good salary very early on, but still never felt deprived of anything food wise- that's key.

I just know my bland tastes came from only mainly knowing bland foods from a young age.

One sister also eats healthily but likes large portions (I can only stomach small portions)- although not overweight, she is a few sizes than me because of it.

Just a few thoughts:
Its great that you have noticed it and are trying to deal with it straight away - the earlier you step in the better
Great that you are not making a big deal of it i.e switching rather than banning
Swapping brown for white isn’t really relevant calorie wise
Remember the 80% diet 20% exercise “rule” - getting her activity up is good, but it wont be as effective as improving her diet.
Look at the whole of her diet - don’t talk about treats ..all food is food , no good/bad /treats etc…
Don’t ( and I not saying you are) make her feel like theres something wrong with her. I was gently fat shamed, told I needed to control myself, told I was built that way/unlucky etc..all said gently , but it made me feel like there was something wrong with me and there wasn’t - I was simply eating too many calories!

We don’t bother having stuff in the house, it’s easy enough for the kids to pop to Sainsbury’s once a week and select their treat of the week. My kids would think it odd if we kept junk in the cupboards. They have access to quality yogurts, fruit, berries day to day. Personally in your shoes I’d focus on being healthy and strong. Don’t worry about any foods given during socials, don’t make an issue of it if eating healthily at home. Ensure she has protein each meal and water generally.

Same here - we just don’t have packets of biscuits, big bags of crisps, sweets or chocolate bars in the house generally. We do bake for fun sometimes and they get enough sweet treats etc on days out, at their grandparents and birthday parties! I don’t think you need to have it at home and readily available everyday.

I did what your daughter does when I was a child, and his it from my parents though they saying must've known. I was very unhappy and it was a cupping mechanism. I'm not saying she is at all, but the habit has stuck for me even now I'm not unhappy. I'm very happy now, and have been for nearly 20 years but I still bing eat. I wish my mum had thrown it all away.

@SkankingWombat is correct.

Many children who are overweight are also likely to be taller as the extra calories also go into increasing height. However, in the case of girls, extra body fat causes periods to start (I think generally, there is a specific body fat percentage that kicks off puberty). And girls stop growing on average two years after the start of their periods.

And of course they will be missing out on years of growth. Girls who start their periods later don't just grow when they hit puberty! They will still be growing at the same time as the girls who start earlier; they will just continue growing for longer.

Science: https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/162/7/623/204506

"Our results support the general belief that women who reach their menarche at a later age will eventually grow taller compared with women who reach their menarche at an earlier age."

Science: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6489471/#:~:text=Obese%20children%20are%20usually%20taller%20for%20their%20age%20but%20also,process%20of%20growth%20and%20puberty.

"Obese children are usually taller for their age but also fatter and mature faster, but they do not tend to attain taller height as adults since excess adiposity during early childhood has an influence on the process of growth and puberty."

Lots of science referenced in this review paper: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/british-journal-of-nutrition/article/shorter-adults-yet-taller-children-whats-up/A15D2DC1347F8DC1D3954A55A7441A68

"Thus, increased height in children may be a surrogate marker for higher risk of obesity in later life. On the surface, this may suggest that these overweight and tall children become overweight and short adults. The authors pose a possible explanation for this whereby the ‘preterm skeletal maturity in obese children may limit [subsequent linear] growth and final height in adults’. "

Definitely needs more sport

But 12 and 14 are pretty average ages to start your periods and thus follows that you will reach your maximum potential heights. Generally speaking, you will stop growing at 14 and 16 respectively, which are again, normal ages for girls to reach their adult heights.

Now imagine that you started your periods at 9. As an adult you would be roughly the same height as you were at 11.

Could she be eating out of boredom? It sounds like she doesn’t do much in the way of structured activity/sport after school, so could be at a loose end. One of mine will graze very mindlessly when they are bored and have nothing to do. They need more structured time than the others. He has benefited from way more formal activity and the issue has disappeared. If he is at a sports class for 2hrs, he isn’t searching the cupboards!

Honestly, I would focus on the treats themselves and the effect on health rather than the weight thing. Eating healthily as a goal in itself is something she (and you) can more easily control than whether she loses weight. The one thing you don't want is to imply that sneaking junk would be ok if she were thin - it'd be bad for her then too! As another OP mentioned, exercise will increase hunger but the switch you've made to things like hummus will help a lot with protein increasing satiety. Exercise may not be a magic button to weight loss but it will give her health benefits whatever her weight, so is independently worth it - as is what you're doing around better foods to build healthy habits. Good luck!

Have you considered that school lunches may be a factor? Heavily processed, carb heavy, lots of cheese?

A parent in my child's year group happened to be in seeing a teacher when lunches were being prepped and food set out in the hall. She's a nutritionist who works with people with eating disorders and was horrified to see a specific brand of yoghurts which they basically prescribe for patients as they are so highly calorific. Hundreds of calories per pot. She went through the school menus and all the peripherals and treats and switched her child to packed lunches immediately. Her child had been getting quite overweight and home diet was healthy so the penny dropped

@4timesthefun boredom is definitely a factor at times, I've noticed this myself especially in holidays, but it's easy enough to distract. Habit is another factor when it comes to snacking/asking for supper etc. I'm working on the after school activities thing but it's difficult to find classes and clubs that fit with our schedule/contact arrangements- I only have guaranteed contact for two weeknights due to the way we alternate. This works well for us as co-parents so I'd prefer not to change it if possible but it's a conversation to have if it becomes a stumbling block.

@AngryBookworm agree with you completely and it certainly wouldn't be ok if she were slim! It's the sneakiness I don't like as much as the worry about food. Hopefully the removal of stuff from the kitchen has helped- I haven't noticed anything missing/wrappers that shouldn't be there so it's just day to day stuff I need to get a handle on now.

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams it's an interesting point and we've talked about this. The first year of school meals were excellent and she'd choose well, a good variety of food and balanced meals I'd have been happy to serve (it's all cooked fresh on site). The second year wasn't so great, she's not especially picky but there always seemed to be something about a meal she didn't like. I think it contributed to her coming home ravenous. We've agreed to look through the menu in September and make a decision about whether to continue with them or switch to packed lunches.

Thank you @Sidebeforeself i know the brown/white doesn't make much difference calorie wise but I was going from a fibre/satiety angle- I don't notice a difference personally but it's worth a try.
I've always thought the same re 80/20 diet-exercise too but I figured it can't hurt to move more and help her to look at her body in a different way, see what it can do, build confidence, open conversations about fuelling it properly. That's the plan at least!

One question for those suggesting fruits/yoghurt etc as dessert- what do you do if they're part of the diet anyway (breakfast of choice since she's gone off cereal)? I wouldn't say I take a money-no-object approach to fruit but berries etc have never been seen as a "treat" due to cost/scarcity- I think she's had berries nearly every day since she was weaned, they're pretty standard fayre!