Why the assumption that everyone has certain hardware?

[Treaclewell]

So, I'm 78 and don't spend much away from home, where I am adequately computerised. One in the study (plus 3 not currently used), one on its last legs in the living room, one in the bedroom. That one will separate from the keyboard, but uses Windows, not tablet software. Also a smartphone, but I don't use email on it. Why would I? I'm at home where I can access it with legible print and a full size keyboard. I was in charge of ICT when I taught so I'm not incompetent.
But today, I have failed to complete the car purchase documents. I got as far as a selfie on the mobile, plus the piccie of my licence, and couldn't transfer them to the computer. Bluetooth malfunction, and USB plugs the wrong sort. Called the dealer. And then I am told by the dealer that the photos have to be taken by the device which will send them. The instructions did not say that. They just assumed I would have the right kit without being told. Why? (I'm going in tomorrow with a cleft stick)
I've noticed this elsewhere. It usually means they've lost a customer.
But I'm old, so who cares?

And then I am told by the dealer that the photos have to be taken by the device which will send them

I haven't come across this, but it sounds like a proof of identity thing. They need to match the selfie to the identity document. They probably expected you to email from the mobile. But if you're going in, they can do the identity checks in person.

Sorry pressed post accidentally!!

I prefer to go in anyway where possible.
a few years ago hackers were targeting car dealerships and intercepting emails, they were changing bank details on the dealer email so people were transferring fund to the scammers account instead. It sounds like the dealers have tightened their security which is no bad thing.

Ask them tomorrow, they will probably happily explain it to you on why these extra checks are necessary.

I mean that is if you are going to go in instead of following through with your lost a customer threat.

It's probably so that undesirable people can't just drive off with new cars. It's not like you are buying a pint of milk or even a TV, you are talking about a car here.

I don't really see what the problem is, they assumed you could do the identity photo what is now the usual way, you cannot, so there is an alternative way you can do it tomorrow. What is the actual problem?

If you have a smartphone and are computer literate then why didn't you just complete the paperwork using your phone? No need to transfer to the computer. I use email on the phone all the time and never use the home computer

I think that the instructions should have said that the device sending the selfie needs to be the same device sending the email because cars cost thousands so high security is a must.

I think it’s not unreasonable to assume that people don’t have multiple devices and will do it the simplest way - all on a laptop/pc or smartphone. I assume that your laptop/pc doesn’t have a camera because it sounds very complicated using multiple devices to do a job that can be done on one and I assume that you don’t use email on a smartphone because of screen size ? Again, I think it’s reasonable for developers to assume that people will use one device rather than several for something that should be straight forward.

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I’m learning that companies are passing an awful lot off as obligatory when it isn’t- it is just what is more profitable or convenient for them.

"Also a smartphone, but I don't use email on it. Why would I?"

I guess you have just answered your own question - to buy a car! I access emails all the time on my phone out and about, for things like tickets and collection codes. Presumably you couldn't just send the link from the email via eg WhatsApp to your phone.

I'm not unsympathetic, I'm way younger than you and I wonder if all these systems just get in the way. I didn't appreciate the upsides of being able to do things over the phone and have a nice customer service person do battle with the various screens and inputs, while I just gave verbal answers. And I hate it when they don't state what you need upfront. But if the specific thing you need is one device that can both receive emails and take a photo, I don't think that is an unreasonably arcane set of requirements these days. Especially if they are happy to do it with you in person instead.

The main thing though, don't let it spoil things and enjoy your new car.

You’ve made a simple process complicated by not keeping up with technology- it moves on. If you don’t keep up you lose out. That’s life.

My parents are in their late 70’s and manage to use smartphones and laptops.

If you want to continue to do things your way that’s your choice but it might compromise things.

I couldn't disagree with this post more. Yes, technology does move on, but to assume that this means everyone will have access and be able to use it all is very exclusionary. My BIL is a farmer...has had no need to keep up to date with technological advancements (apart from in relation to farming technology, such as tractors). And yet the government moves everything online which means he now needs help (and, incidentally, to pay a load more in fees for the various software that is required).

I’m learning that companies are passing an awful lot off as obligatory when it isn’t- it is just what is more profitable or convenient for them.

I agree @Lurkingandlearning. There is very little personal customer service now. It can be very convenient to do things online but some companies make it unnecessarily complicated. Just do the job you're paid to do - we're spending money with you, make it an easy and pleasant experience for us!

But you do have the right kit? You could email from your phone but you choose not to?

..has had no need to keep up to date with technological advancements

But he does as the government moves everything online - thats the definition of need.

Times change, we no longer send telexes or faxes, or carrier pigeon....

I don't use my iPhone to email either. It's not one of the enormous ones so it's fiddly and my eyesight isn't the best.

Total sympathy OP.

The whole point of smartphones is to be able to use the internet, email etc on them so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for businesses to expect people to refuse to use those functions. You don’t really need to do the full thing on the phone, I just email photos I’ve taken on my phone to myself or access them through iCloud on my (windows) computer (google drive if you have an android phone).

I live in a farming community- IT is absolutely pivotal to farm successfully. He had need but didn’t bother by the sound of it until
it was too late.

If you keep up the change is gradual and not difficult, rest on your laurels at your peril!

Yes it's the identity check.
I do not spend a mass of time out to need to use a mobile for emails. And the screen is too small, the typeface is too small and the simulated keyboard is too small. I have enough trouble calling the taxi when I've been at the opthalmology clinic by the phone function to get tangled in using invisible emails.
I need to have that way just to buy a car? How often does that happen?
Time was when web designers had to build in functionality for users of different OSs.
Couldn't use the laptop for the photo. I'd have had to hold it a weird way to get a plain background as most bare walls have exposed brick, architect fancy, and that was part of the instructions they did give. No pattern. In the study, the background would be books.
My point was the assumption that everyone has a default set up without stating what that default is not helpful. Like the list on the side of software boxes. That would help.

I've had the same thing recently going 'all modern and digital' with my GP surgery. Similarly, I prefer the bigger screen of my laptop and keys on a keyboard to do things (phone's fine for surfing/browsing). I've resolved it now (went into the surgery and explained the problem) but it didn't occur to them (their words) that people might use something other than a 'mobile device' for accessing the surgery facilities remotely.

I'm also finding more and more apps not available for my device (laptop - just over a year old) but available for my phone (4 years old). Again, no. Some things need a bigger screen for some people. Not necessarily bigger text.

@Treaclewell throw a plain sheet over a bookcase/etc to create an easier plain background

Tbh they probably assume if your eyes are too bad to use a smartphone (given you can increase the text size a lot, at least on iPhones) then they’re probably not good enough to be driving either…

I'm with OP on this. I'm in my 40s and sometimes I feel like I need a qualification in IT just to manage all the different apps and payment platforms for my kids schools and activities. It's something i really struggle with and every time I think I'm up to date something changes again. Often unnecessarily. For example there is a place that prints photos near me, you connect a cable into your phone then select on screen etc but last week i went there and they have updated their system so i needed to download an app and connect via bluetooth then organise payment digitally etc. Much more time consuming and complicated than before.

What really frustrates me is the amount of big companies with high profit margins who get the customers to do the admin work for them, using my time to reduce their costs, a saving which does not get passed onto me. I got so frustrated with one online service recently requiring me to scan several documents that I sent the papers by post with a handwritten cover letter. I'm sure its sitting on the desk of a bewildered junior. But I was making a point, let someone on the payroll scan each document and go through 12 drop down menus 40 times over.

And who are most consulting the GPs? Could it be the not very youthful, as round here? And it not occurring to them that not everyone has a mobile? Mine has a patient access app. It recently switched from username/password/random letter from memorable word to username/password/six digit onetimecode sent to my mobile. Along with my bank etc. I can't do anything spontaneously, I have to go and fetch my mobile from wherever I used it last first. 2 flight of stairs.

Forgot to mention. Photo had to be taken without "eyewear". Which I use for driving.
And I would have to go 2 flights to get a sheet. Not white, so wouldn't do.

YANBU. I'm young, but I would expect to complete forms on a laptop using photos taken on the phone and sent over (usually by Bluetooth). Smartphones are cumbersome and unsuitable for filling out forms. I can set up banking app accounts on the phone, but they don't really have forms, just basic details and selfie and ID for KYC. I've never bought a car, but it sounds like the forms are more involved than that.

More and more firms are using third parties for ID checks, so the OP probably wouldn't help by taking ID docs to the dealership in person, as the salesman himself is probably not the one responsible for ID checks. At the very least, it will be a back office role, maybe off site, and like I say, maybe a third party ID proofing firm.

It's much more high risk a firm doing their own ID checks, especially these days when there are enormous fines (and potentially prison) when the ID proof procedure isn't done properly.

I'm an accountant. We don't do our own ID checks anymore due to the time it takes and the legal risks of getting it wrong. We subcontract to a specialist firm - we send an email/text link to the client and when they click on the link, they deal directly with the third party, who do things like asking for the client to take videos of themselves saying a phrase and/or turning their head side to side, to prove that it's genuinely them. It's far too easy for people to send a photo of a passport and a photo claiming to be them which is in reality a photo of a photo of someone else.

There's so much identity theft/fraud, that firms who fall into the realms of having to check identities have to take it seriously. It's simply no longer good enough for a quick flash of a passport or driving licence.

The OP needs to accept inevitable change or they'll be left behind. No reason at all why they can't set up their email on their mobile phone, especially if they're IT literate enough to set it up on their home computers/laptops. This won't be the last time they're inconvenienced/disadvantaged by not moving with the times!

@Treaclewell "Time was when web designers had to build in functionality for users of different OSs."

Looking at this for a business perspective...
I agree. I have never been a web designer but I have had to work with them.

UX always used to be about convenience for the end user.

Now it's been taken over by several layers of complexity which only benefit the numerous levels of designer involved. like a money go round.

I am in regular contact with someone who worked on the very early days of UX and then AI. She is constantly astonished at how things worked in the original developing process versus how they are being executed now.

I can only think what happened is that lots of senior executives are assuming that customers are enthusiastic geeky types who actually want to use several levels of technology. It's very odd.

I do have the kit that I need to do stuff. I do have email on my mobile, but my eyesight is fine. I know twentysomethings whose eyesight isn't fine and they are always doing that thing where they expand to have a really big font on their phone in order to read anything. I have accidentally seen some weirdly personal messages on peoples phones when they're just reading them at work 😂

Puzzles me because I think eventually big companies are going to want to stop handing over contracts for technology that pisses off their customers?
Unfortunately we don't seem to be anywhere near that point. But then I get confused because I think surely all these levels of tech are eating into the bottom line?

re IT at the GP and the elderly - strikes me as downright discrimination.

But I leave those rants for the elderly parents board!

Kindly, I do think you need to keep all your admin stuff together in one place. General life admin is basically an office job these days. I've got contacts who needs about seven different logins just to sort out their kids school stuff!

I agree OP. Technology is making everything so complicated for people who have some knowledge but who aren't using this stuff day in day out so it becomes difficult/ stressful/impossible.
My MIL (96) is computer literate and does her shopping online. However, she has macular degeneration so has to massively increase font size so everything takes much longer. 2 factor authentication is impossible for her - she can't use a mobile phone as her eyesight isn't good enough and if code is sent to her landline, by the time she's received it and tried to key it in on her desktop, the transaction has timed out.

I'm 60 and recently booked a lot of train tickets and entrance tickets for a trip abroad for me and 2 friends, in addition to flights and accomodation. Whilst I managed it, I found the whole process unnecessarily complicated and stressful and left me longing for 'the good old days' when you spoke to a person or bought entrance tickets at the door (because everyone hadn't booked in advance so tickets were available!)

People who are doing this sort of thing all day every day for work have no idea what it's like for those who only do these things very occasionally. Even my DH had a strop at his phone the other day at the process of trying to claim a tax refund from HMRC. Much easier when the attached a cheque to the letter!