Why the assumption that everyone has certain hardware?

[Treaclewell]

So, I'm 78 and don't spend much away from home, where I am adequately computerised. One in the study (plus 3 not currently used), one on its last legs in the living room, one in the bedroom. That one will separate from the keyboard, but uses Windows, not tablet software. Also a smartphone, but I don't use email on it. Why would I? I'm at home where I can access it with legible print and a full size keyboard. I was in charge of ICT when I taught so I'm not incompetent.
But today, I have failed to complete the car purchase documents. I got as far as a selfie on the mobile, plus the piccie of my licence, and couldn't transfer them to the computer. Bluetooth malfunction, and USB plugs the wrong sort. Called the dealer. And then I am told by the dealer that the photos have to be taken by the device which will send them. The instructions did not say that. They just assumed I would have the right kit without being told. Why? (I'm going in tomorrow with a cleft stick)
I've noticed this elsewhere. It usually means they've lost a customer.
But I'm old, so who cares?

@Badbadbunny "It's simply no longer good enough for a quick flash of a passport or driving licence."

that's literally what we're objecting to, if no one had come up with all this tech, that would have been good enough. I miss those days. I use everything I'm supposed to but I still miss those days. And the disability discrimination is unaddressed.

the conveyancing hack last year shows we're not actually ready to go on a lot of systems that are in place.

@ohtowinthelottery "People who are doing this sort of thing all day every day for work have no idea what it's like for those who only do these things very occasionally"

Oh god, that's even worse, doing it all day and then for life admin.

I always planned to retire early (no kids) but it's getting earlier because I'm sick of the levels of tech increasing in every aspect of the job.

Then whatever flavour of government is in will whine about people like me not paying into the tax pot anymore!

The point is that a "quick flash of a passport or driving licence" wasn't preventing theft and fraud, so it simply wasn't working. The person you were showing it to couldn't possibly know if it was a fake/counterfeit for example as you can't possible train everyone with the intricate details of every possible identity document. It doesn't work if you have "look-a-likes" who could easily pass for someone else if you didn't look closely, nor does it help when a bloke grows/removes his beard or a woman changes her hair colour or style.

It's why airports are moving over to biometric scanning rather than having some bloke behind a counter comparing the passport photo with the person standing in front of them. A quick flash simply doesn't work and doesn't prevent fraud/theft.

If the technology is available to do a much better, more thorough, more accurate job of trying to prevent ID theft and fraud, it's absolute madness not to use it!

Having read your updates, why wouldn’t you set up email on your phone for just in case situations like this but normally read them on the laptop?
You said that you are computer literate - download an app that will change the background to white and you don’t have to walk up and down stairs to get white sheets.

I'm with you OP. My parents are 10+ years older than you, and more and more tech is being introduced. We are in the process of registering my mobile with banks, NHS, etc as they don't do texts, it is all too much for them. And 3417 factor identification just complicates things.

I've met people in my industry who refuse to use smartphones because of privacy concerns, or who use more niche smartphone operating systems that don't "phone home" all your location and sensor data, like Sailfish, Ubuntu Touch, or Postmarket, to avoid Google and Apple's snooping.

It's unreasonable to require smartphone ownership to use a service.

The whole point of smartphones is to be able to use the internet, email etc on them so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for businesses to expect people to refuse to use those functions

Is it? I don't recall that stipulation when I bought mine, although it might have been a selling point for a lot of people.

If a business wants me to use their business then it makes it easy for me to do so. Not throw obstacles in my way.

It is a pain having to go in to pass ID checks but this is nothing new, I remember travelling 30 mins to a nearby town to send a fax confirmation once as I couldnt visit in person. Some people may not have access or even own the technology and whilst in this case it is very annoying, you do have the technology and ability to do this and have an option to do it in person, I am not sure what else you are hoping for.
I would be reassured that these extra checks are stopping someone else from pretending to be you and commiting fraud in your name.

A smartphone is literally a phone with computing functions. That’s what it’s for. No one is going to force you to send texts either but likewise they’d find it pretty weird if you had the capability to and refused to.

Complaining that you need a smartphone to do things in the 2020s is like complaining 40 years ago that you needed a pen to do things!

@haXXor you don’t need to use a mainstream OS to carry out daily tasks on a phone, although you might not be able to get all apps if you use something really niche.

I get that it's a pain but for ID check it totally makes sense, otherwise if you were trying to buy the car in someone else's name, you could just download a picture off there face book or something.

Although you don't use the email on your smartphone, they all automatically have email software, it's actually almost impossible to uninstall it (as I found out when I wanted to set up an old tablet of mine for my kid to play on). Surely you could have just used it for this one thing if you had wanted to, even if you had to zoom in to read it.

No company that offers a service via an app makes a version of their app other than for Android and iOS. Sailfish attempts to support Android apps but personal experience is that the support is not complete.

This means that the security-conscious can't park in NCP app-only car parks, use app-only banking (e.g. Atom), or use any other service that isn't a plain website accessible via a browser. The effect of this is coercion into accepting a spyware device in our pockets.

Complaining that you need a smartphone to do things in the 2020s is like complaining 40 years ago that you needed a pen to do things!

Oh is it? I stand corrected.

I thought you could on Ubuntu?

People who care that much about security that they are willing to cripple their lives wouldn’t want app-based banks (collecting info about all of your transactions) or car parking (collecting your registration, movements and location) anyway!

I know I'm oversimplifying things, but these security checks are necessary because of risk of theft from hackers, but the only reason these things can be hacked in the first place is because big tech convinced everyone to put everything into a digital form in the first place. I know this has changed how some industries work for the better, but sometimes it's nonsensical and unnecessary. For example, someone in my family works in an office. Small number of clients, very confidential information. They had a half and half system for a while, primarily paper based but using emails and systems for updates etc for efficiency reasons. Then it went full on digital, they were hacked, they have brought in experts and spent a fortune on several upgrades. The security steps take time and is poor misuse of experts time. Until recently those confidential files were in a fire proof filing cabinet with certain people having key access and not once did they ever have a security breach. Now security costs them a fortune, for what?? People being convinced to 'keep with the times' for no benefit whatsoever, in this case the nature of the business has not changed.

I've had the misfortune to use the Anbox compatibility layer, used in Ubuntu Touch, on the desktop. Lots of things just don't work.

Any bank has your transaction history. It's on your statement. The bank being app-based doesn't alter that.

Any car park in 2024 captures your licence plate on camera as you enter. The payment being via app doesn't alter that.

What the need for an app does alter is that it forces the need for an Android or iOS smartphone. A smartphone in your pocket is telling Google or Apple where you are at all times, is sending your photos and browsing history to their datacentres, has gyroscopes in it that can be used for gait analysis, a microphone that can be switched on remotely, etc. Smartphones are already used by abusive spouses to monitor location, emails, browsing history etc of victims by the abuser installing what's been described as "spouseware" and "stalkerware" on the smartphone. Recently, you have to increase your "attack surface", the means by which someone else can harm you through technology, to use a service that, ten years ago, was uncontroversially delivered by means of a pay and display machine or a brick-and-mortar branch.

In Orwell's 1984, people invited the viewscreens in at first. They only became compulsory later on. Think about what you are sleepwalking into.

Recently, you have to increase your "attack surface", the means by which someone else can harm you through technology, to use a service that, ten years ago, was uncontroversially delivered by means of a pay and display machine or a brick-and-mortar branch.

And this is for the company's convenience and profit, not yours. App-only parking means them trading your security for their saving the cost of a parking meter or a call centre you could phone from a "brick" phone. App-only banking means them trading your security for their saving of the cost of a brick-and-mortar branch, a call centre, or a well-designed website supporting multiple types of two-factor authentication.

@Alalalalalongalalalalalonglonglilong Exactly this, thank you. The IT department at my work actually expressed concern about the software my solicitor was using when I bought this flat - but I think all of those systems basically work the same way. I would be interested to know if fraud has increased or reduced with all this IT.

life at work and at home is so much harder and it's really interesting when you talk to experts about all the new security problems.

@haXXor I’m not sleepwalking into anything, I’ve read Shoshanna Zuboff’s book etc. I am just realistic that for the past 15 odd years smartphones have been in our lives, they’re not going away and I’m not going to opt out of normal life and then complain when doing so has made things hard for myself.

This is intensely interesting. The firm advised not to use a laptop phone as the picture wouldn't be good enough! I now recall. The accountant said driving licence and photo wasn't good enough - and that's what they wanted! As I was doing the photos, it did occur to me that I could easily use one of the photos I took in a PhotoMe machine and left lying around, if I wasn't me. Not good enough. And they use a digital signature, which definitely isn't anything like mine

“Complaining that you need a smartphone to do things in the 2020s is like complaining 40 years ago that you needed a pen to do things!”

Nobody’s complaining you need a smartphone to do things.

We’re complaining that using a smartphone is the ONLY way you can do certain things nowadays - with no alternatives for those that don’t have a smartphone or aren’t able to read/use one. And we’re supposed to like this or lump it. It’s a massive discrimination against age and disability, imho. In this age of equality and diversity there should be more than one option to use a service to cater for the widest audience possible.

Rant over.

Edit: No, it's not. I think the phrase I'm looking for is 'user friendly'. Modern, high tech company processes are NOT user friendly.

However you rationalise it, you've invited the viewscreen in.