Bad feelings from my childhood exposed watching DS with my mum

[Qwertypo]

My mum with DS brings bad feelings from my childhood. I wondered whether this has happened to you?

It's like a mirror and things make more sense but it's tough. I'm questioning do I need to "protect" my son. We don't see her that much.

My partner sees it but thinks because the contact is so limited that it is not really a problem. He sees how it would have been bad for me and that I'm over worried that he will experience the same. But he thinks more damage would be done too everyone by surfacing it.

I'll share my specifics in a reply. But I really want to hear your experiences and how you dealt with it?

....I suspect it might have been common especially as parenting in the 80s was quite different (hitting, shouting etc)

depends on the circumstances and scale - corporal punishment was socially and culturally acceptable in the 80s, but isn't now. Your mum probably knows that

To avoid a very long post as I'm keen to hear from others experiences, I'll share mine here

My mum sees my DS irregularly. DS is very active, 3.5 years old. High energy but mostly calm, we try to create a stable environment.

I hear my mum love -bomb him. Say things like I'm never going to leave you - quite extreme (but obviously will do soon after). Then constantly remind him she is going soon. The next day, he was crying saying he "missed Grandma so much". He was also pulling sad faces lots after her visit, which is not normal. Then on a video call she was mimicking his sad faces, which seemed weird to see. Lots of negativity.... "no"s to things I wouldn't say no - getting a tiny bit muddy. Or encouraging overly cautious behaviour, when he is normally confident and safe. Being generally emotionally heavy.

On the day, he had a big meltdown. The next day they were glum, they are never glum.

I feel it's too much for a developing brain to deal with. But it's so many small things that I'm not sure how to communicate it.

It reminds me of how I felt as a child, except I had to deal with it everyday. My partner thinks it's quite minor but because I grew up with this kind of emotional manipulation (actually much much worse than this), I'm being sensitive. I struggle with anxiety and depression. I do not want this for my son.

Perhaps related, if I express something I'm not happy with something to my parents, very softly, sometimes my parents find it difficult and then won't be able to manage their emotions. Go in to denial and sometimes double down on what I've asked them not to do. So making it worse and impossible for me to be heard.

I'm wondering if others experience this too. Perhaps it's common and a normal discomfort about grandparents. I want to do the best for my son and that might be good them to have a relationship.

It's emotional manipulation. I'm confident they wouldn't use force but did with me. They have "high expectations of behaviour", so it feels she is doing it by trying to manipulating my child to want to please her.

in what way is she different to anyone else wanting a child to behave well?

I had something similar, I think.

For all that things were different back then, there were plenty of parents who chose not to hit / scream at their kids.

Lots of people say that once you have your own children you suddenly understand/forgive/see things from your parents' point of view, but for me it was the opposite.

I talked it out in therapy, but I know not everyone has the time/ money for that.

My parents wouldn't hit their grandkids - my own dc is the youngest of many so I know. I've also had the chance to see just how impoverished their parenting skills actually are, which is a bit sad all round. I honestly think if they'd done a decent parenting course in 1980 (yeah I know not many around then) we would all have been much happier. They (still) think that parenting courses are a daft idea because once you've had a kid, you're a parent, right?
Anyway, in the early days my parents tried to use my dc to wind me up. I nipped that in the bud pretty emphatically. For a long time they didn't have dc unsupervised. They're not actually around that often so dc isn't super close to them. There's been a couple of times I've had to explain to dc "Grandma/dad was just trying to be funny but it didn't quite work" but nothing worse than that.

Big sad faces, making her emotions their responsibility. But having just love bombed, ie huge, ridiculous. Then constant correction for standing in the wrong place, micromanagement. But going back on boundaries we have set

I could just see that as an adult I would have felt confused. Then eventually they got overloaded and had the biggest meltdown I've seen.

Perhaps this is some people's normal for getting a child to behave. I'd value opinions that give me some more objectivity.

The way I was treated might be clouding my judgement. My partner thinks it's not that bad. As an example for why it might be affecting my judgement, they commented that myself and my brother wouldn't have had a meltdown, but I would have been hit. And my DS hasn't had a meltdown like that before.

Thank you. I've had the same experience of being told once you have children, you will see it from your parents perspective. And am the same as you, I saw it from their perspective (that I was awful) until I had kids.

Sorry for hear you have had a similar challenges. I hope you managed to stop your parents physically hurting your child.

Mine aren't doing that fortunately. Working this thread is helping me explain it better.....

My mum is essentially giving loads of love (to the point it's sounds ridiculous) and then taking it away very quickly to get small wins that are inconsequential. It must be emotionally painful and I can't explain it to a 3 year old. Their brains are developing and trying to understand emotions.

I'm always around but sometimes I'm a different room. So I don't see everything.

I could have written this. I still struggle with my relationship with my own mother and my children are older than your son. I even find it hard to read your posts as they are triggering.
I can't stand to see how she does this over and over. So I really limit contact. You don't need to spend more time than you are prepared to with your own mother.
Our children go first.
Its a fucked up personality and behaviour and you can't change it OP. No matter how much you talk to her. She is the way she is and she will never be one of the mothers you see normally interacting with their own adult children and grandchildren. You are not alone. x

Some of this sounds like my mum.

My mum used to say to me (from a very young age like 2-3yo) "I'm going to DIE one day so you'll have to cope without me" and she'd go into long specifics about how I'd live with my aunt if she died young. She has no severe illnesses and is a very fit 67yo now! Naturally as a kid I was terrified of this happening. I'd spend sleepless nights worrying about it. In hindsight it was bonkers of her to say things like that.

She also micromanages my dd a bit, which comes from her terrible anxiety. We let dd cuddle her baby brother, sing and dance for him, pass him toys. But dm tries to stop her saying "you'll hurt him" [no, she won't] and then dd has a meltdown and starts saying "am I a bad sister"! I've had to tell off my dm quite sternly for this.

She sounds difficult. I can definitely relate that when you've experienced the cumulative impact of behaviours - or their most extreme form- then it's hard to ignore individual instances.

I don't know how common this is, but I don't think it's "normal" for people with a positive childhood, I think it's experienced by people whose parents were damaging.

"I want to do the best for my son and that might be good them to have a relationship" - I guess think about and discuss with your partner what are the positives, if any, of their interactions?

It sounds like small quantities, with stable parenting to counterbalance it, her influence won't be overly damaging. However it sounds very stressful for you to be around it, so you'd be reasonable to set more boundaries around contact.

And yes I agree, becoming a parent has made me feel differently about my mum.

On the one hand, I see more clearly how difficult it must have been as a single mum and also caring for my ND and very troubled sibling.

But on the other hand, she made some wild decisions and had some odd parenting behaviours that in hindsight were really not ideal and I'm amazed sometimes that I've turned out as relatively-normal as I am.

I don’t have kids yet OP but a lot of what you say resonates with me, love bombing and then she would stop speaking to me or even making eye contact with me for transgressions or offence. I live quite far away now but sometimes when I visit she’s doing this to her husband (not speaking to him or looking at him) and it’s awful. And shocking to me that she hasn’t emotionally matured in 30 years.

She can be incredibly loving and brilliant and definitely makes me feel loved, but even now I am quite tense with it as I know it can be snatched away at any moment. I’m fairly certain she’s pretty good with quite young kids though, so wouldn’t mind about getting muddy and adventures etc - it’s just once people become “separate” human beings that her ego comes into play.

But I’ll definitely be observing what she’s like with my child (due in January) when the time comes. Not really any advice just solidarity, follow your gut and if you can try to limit or improve things - could she do a parenting course herself? Could you share parenting techniques with her in conversation and would she pick up on this? Could you say we are following this approach, here is the Instagram account that explains it really well and I’d love you to join us on this so my son gets a consistent message? Maybe there are some things you can attempt before limiting her contact.

Maybe even tackling it head on and sharing what you’ve observed and what you’d like her to change. Easier said than done of course but maybe better than limiting contact.

Hard that your DH doesn’t see it, but I think people with stable consistent parents often don’t really know the signs and don’t understand.

Wow, this is so similar to my experience I am gobsmacked.

Because it's a a culmination of seemingly minor manipulations it's so hard to explain to someone or even point at examples.

My two year old wouldn't sit on DM's lap for a photo once and she said 'you'll regret that one day'. It made me feel sick, but it really doesn't sound like much to anyone else.

She isn't a terrible person all round and she helps me a lot but I have begun to reduce her contact with my kids because of the emotional 'heaviness' as you say. She also babies my son who is just not that kind of boy at all.

I've had a lot of counselling 🙃

Hmm I think you should have stronger boundaries with her. It sounds like you're letting her take over and parent a bit when she visits - instead make her sit with a cuppa and you carry on being the parent, gently overriding her when she takes the emotionally manipulative conversation with your child too far.

Yes, but a different experience - and not one where I've wanted to reduce contact.

Now I've seen my mum interact with my children I realise where my anxiety comes from. She's on constant high alert, seeing dangers everywhere, constantly stopping them from being children. I was an only child so I didn't even have another child with me to offset it/deal with it together or rationalise it together.

I've required lots of therapy to try to tackle it in my adult life, and it's a constant work in progress. It makes me sad how my mum has wasted so much of her life to feeling that way.

But because she sees the kids with me or my husband around too we simply counteract it every time she says something f ludicrous. So I'm hoping I'm doing my best to offset it. I've also not noticed any impact on them.

Sorry to hear about your mum, that does sound a more difficult situation. I'm glad your DH is in somewhat in agreement with you. I definitely wouldn't allow unsupervised contact in your position

I didn’t have a bad childhood but being a parent has magnified my feelings of “WTF” about a couple of things my parents did. I’m sure I’ll do some thing wrong to scar my own kids but I have read a couple of parenting books because I want to avoid doing so!

Crap sorry I didn't mean to quote the first post! That's my Mumsnet pet peeve 😅

Yes I watched my DM emotionally manipulate my eldest last because she thought he was too attached and wanted him to spend time alone. So she thought it was a good idea to hurt his feelings by undermining him, so he’s go away, basically. It was like a lightning bolt and it made me realise a lot about my childhood. I’ll not let that happen again.

Watching with interest if that’s ok, OP. My mum is highly emotionally manipulative and will only be having very strongly supervised contact with my DC (due in November), but I still worry about WTF will come out of her mouth even while I’m in the room with her.

I plan to challenge each instance of inappropriate behaviour from her and let her know that I will not be inflicting upon my children what was inflicted on me just for an easy life (i.e. less drama from her).

Wishing you all the luck dealing with this, I totally get where you’re coming from x

My MIL is like this. I could not understand why my DH was so reluctant to allow any contact. I learnt! Follow your instinct, LC.

Going against the grain a bit (and trust me I know the feeling with my own mum and my three kids) but a) I think stuff like "oh someone else doesn't want me to get muddy that's interesting" is actually really helpful to have experienced when they start school/going to friends houses etc so they can learn all people have different rules and it's okay if one house/teacher has a rule that's different to what they're used to.

Also b) I wonder if his tantrum was due to you being so emotional because you know how that parenting feels writ large over a childhood, for him it was probably just a puzzling experience. When I started treating it like a "puzzling experience" I found both my children's and my own behaviour towards my mother got a lot better!

Trust your instincts OP. Even if you view it as different parenting styles, you don't have to like it for your child. And in my view, making behaviour all about the adult's emotions is totally wrong. I'm sorry you felt in the wrong as a child - behaviour correction, if needed, does not need to be emotionally loaded. Explaining reasons is the way to go, at a level they understand but should be about genuine concerns like - that's not safe for you or we'll be late if we don't get ready now.

It is recognised from research into parenting that many women want their children to be brought up in the same way that they were. It is a credit to you, OP that you don't allow your mother to manipulate your child in the way you experienced. I was a young mother in the eighties. Corporal punishment had been banned in schools and there was a big focus on more gentle parenting. Penelope Leach was the parenting guru used by many parents. She was totally against hitting and smacking children.
I bumped into a girl I used to teach with her young children. I remember that that she disclosed physical and some sexual abuse by her parents. Social services were involved but she stayed with her parents. Those parents are now doing childcare for her. She said to me, 'it's what I know'. So many posters on MN will be quick to criticise their In Laws but allow their own parents, particularly their mothers to parent their grandchildren in spite of reservations.
I think you are right to limit contact, OP and make sure contact is supervised.

This has been so helpful to read. Some are very thought provoking. Thank you.