Bad feelings from my childhood exposed watching DS with my mum

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My mum with DS brings bad feelings from my childhood. I wondered whether this has happened to you?

It's like a mirror and things make more sense but it's tough. I'm questioning do I need to "protect" my son. We don't see her that much.

My partner sees it but thinks because the contact is so limited that it is not really a problem. He sees how it would have been bad for me and that I'm over worried that he will experience the same. But he thinks more damage would be done too everyone by surfacing it.

I'll share my specifics in a reply. But I really want to hear your experiences and how you dealt with it?

....I suspect it might have been common especially as parenting in the 80s was quite different (hitting, shouting etc)

Your DH might not see it as a problem, but he doesn't relate to it in the same context as you.
You can see what's happening, as you experienced it in your childhood.
My parents weren't like that so I don't really comprehend, but I would be calling my mother out every single time, to tell her not to say/behave like that in front my child.

... It is striking that there are many similar experiences (all be it with different reasons and ways of it being expressed).

@Theatro Interestingly my MIL, is very emotionally stable around my children. She treats them with kindness but places boundaries where necessary in her interactions, leaving parenting with us. She treated my partner in a gentle way and has always been very vocal about how she thinks children should be treated, ie as humans. She recognises the bits of our parenting that she thinks is going well. It's lovely to see and very respectful. As you say, I often see people criticising their in laws, rather than parents, it's partly what made me post this.

Awful that the girl you knew was abused like this. I hope things have moved on for the family and it's not repeated.

@Hadalifeonce - I think I need to learn how to do this. I've wanted to avoid calling it out in front of my son as they can be volatile, and even if they weren't, it's confusing. "Don't pull fake sad faces at him". I feel I should call it out after the event without him there? Trying to work this out.

The way I was treated emotionally means I people please for them and have few boundaries. I'm only just learning this. I need to figure out how to change and the right way to do it so it's not more damaging for my boy

I can completely relate to what you're saying OP, including finding it difficult to explain to others as it's a whole lot of small things that aren't so bad in themselves but add up to something that is very toxic.

My dm interacted in a very similar way with my children and seeing my childhood through an adult lens was distressing but also validating. All those things that you felt uncomfortable about but didn't have the words for at the time.

My children also responded in a similar way to your ds. As you say, the dynamics are too complex for children to process, they just know it makes them feel like they've done something wrong or are lacking in someway but don't know what.

My dm died in 2021, so when my children were 14 and 12. I don't know if it's helpful, but here's what I did for those 14 years to try to give them some sort of relationship with their granny but protect them from her toxicity:

1. I was very clear with myself, my dc and her that my dc were my priority. I always, always stuck up for them so if they didn't want to sit on her lap/talk to her/be in the same room as her, that was absolutely fine and I wasn't going to tell them anything different.

1. Stopped the dynamic of expecting children to look after the adults . This is how I was brought up and no way for my children

1. Spread visits out as much as feasibly possible and with tight boundaries around time.

1. If something didn't work didn't try again. eg I asked her to look after my dd for a few hours by herself, dd unsettled when I returned from work, so didn't ask again.

1. Grey rocked her criticisms of me, my parenting, my life choices etc. "That's interesting" is your friend.

1. Expected the minimum of courtesy from my dc eg they say thank you when she gave them some shite from the pound shop that broke immediately, but didn't have to express their gratitude for years to come.

1. Never made them speak on the phone with her. "Sorry, not in the mood at the moment."

1. As they got older, let them complain and moan about her to me. Agreed with a lot of their points. Added in some of my own eg "yes I wish granny wouldn't buy you stuff that just breaks, but she means well and we just need to say thank you and take no more notice", "Yes, granny is very lonely and it's a shame that she doesn't have many friends but it's not your job to make her feel less lonely".

1. As they got older, being more explicit about "I know no-one wants to visit granny, but it's her birthday and she'd like to see you and we'll only stay for x amount of time and take toys and so on."

1. Cut visits short if they weren't working.

1. Did some symbolic things like inviting her to their parties and for Xmas, but only when I felt up to it.

1. Ignored her emotional manipulation of my sister who lives the other side of the world about how I wouldn't let them speak with her, see them and so on.

1. Spent a lot of time and money on therapy, not just because of my dm but having someone to talk things through with definitely helped my confidence in how I was dealing with things.

A few years after her death, I can honestly say that I have had no guilty feelings that I should have done more for her. Lots of sadness that she couldn't be a more functional parent/grandparent but feel at peace with what I did to facilitate my children having some positive experiences with her but not the toxicity.

Neither of them has mentioned her since she died, which I see a testament to how little she impacted their emotional worlds (which was the plan).

Sorry, that was a bit of an epic! Take care OP.

@Likesomemorecash

"Yes, granny is very lonely and it's a shame that she doesn't have many friends but it's not your job to make her feel less lonely".

This is my major issue (especially as an only child it has been suffocating) and I'm desperate for it not to be passed on to my kids so this is great thank you.

It’s interesting though as I’m sure Philippa Perry in her book encourages parents to acknowledge that things they want a child to do are often about their feelings rather than absolute truths (which might suggest a child has done something ‘wrong’, when in fact it’s just inconvenient to the parent).

It’s been a while since I read it, but maybe an example (completely paraphrased) might be:

When there’s lots of noise and shouting I find it stressful (or whatever)

rather than

It’s rude to make a din, please don’t be naughty

(although there is a judgement in the latter – maybe: ‘It makes people’s ears hurt so they don’t like it when people shout’ might meet them in the middle!)

I don’t have a position either way btw (don’t have kids so can’t speak from experience!), although I think instinctively I would go with the ‘reasons’ approach

I had a very different experience as a child. But I found I could not challenge my mums behaviour towards my children. It was how she did things. She had zero self awareness and then gaslighted me. All I could do was never leave them alone with her if I wanted to keep contact. By around 11 they had worked her out.

Depends if your strong enough mentally to confront her. In retrospective I wish I hadn't as it opened up trama but I'm talking trama that should have seen me in care

Currently at 3, my son says he loves her, so so much, favourite person etc. But I think it's the love bombing and it is confusing. He's also expressing sadness when she is not there. Kids often live in the moment and rarely comment on someone's absence.

The other reason its odd is because they see each other for a weekend a month/6 weeks. Which isn't that much at this age. The words coming out are way more mature than the 3 year olds saying them. But ultimately, they are feeling some really big feelings based on the interaction.

I would love them to have a close relationship but this seems odd and out of proportion.

This seems a little different from your kids , who sounds like that didn't like her. @Likesomemorecash or is this how it started?

@FluffyJellyCat -I'm sorry you had trauma and completely understand why you couldn't raise it. It's so hard and I'm wrestling with it now ( without that level of impact in my childhood)

I'm currently working out how to raise it and it might be delicate at first, assume the best and try to teach, in case she just doesn't understand. Then ramp up my approach quickly if no response.

I want it to be most productive for my son and myself as we are today. A lot of my emotions around how I was treated are in the past and it's so hard to be objective.

My kids wanted to like her, as kids naturally do, but she made herself very unlikeable unfortunately.

It is different to your experience - my children never expressed sadness that she had to go home or that she was their favourite person or anything like that. It was sad when they were little and got excited about seeing her but the reality didn't live up, which was confusing for them.

From what you've said, your ds's responses do sound out of proportion to what their relationship actually is and actually as grandparent/grandson 'should be' iykwim?

Been nc for 12 years. Before that 10 years. 2 years of muddling through some sort of relationship in between.. .. Wasn't good for my mh or dc. Won't be going back for more.. Dc don't see her either. Even the adult ones.

Did you read what the op has already stated and actually think that was normal?

The thing is Op, do you feel that it is beneficial for a child to be exposed to only one standard type of upbringing, in which all caregivers are 100% on board?
I know that 2024 UK parenting seems to promote this, but I personally wouldn't be so quick to buy into it.

Is it not preferable to expose children to different types of people, within limits? Different generations and cultures have different ideas about how to raise children.

Your mother possibly seems a bit ott, and rather dramatic in style, but she's his grandmother and as he grows your son will be able to understand what she's like, especially if he has you parents and other grandparents and relatives to compare to.

He'll have a range of people he knows well and can get along with and will soon start adapting to each person.
There will be rules that he knows to abide by at granny's house which he doesn't at home and there's nothing wrong with that. Same when he starts school, and as he grows meets multiple teachers.

You are his parents. Unless he is being looked after day in day by your parents then learning to deal with a different set of personalities rules and expectations isn't a bad thing.

Obviously if your mother is emotionally unstable or cruel then this is a difficult situation altogether.

There are two types of responses in this thread. The ones who straight away get what the OP went through and the ones who (fortunately) don't get it. Your response is very naive but I understand it comes from a good and normal upbringing.

Fortunately because people who didn't live the experience of being constantly manipulated by their own mother have no idea of the impact in their lives (even when you don't live with this person).

No, OP's DS doesn't need exposure to this type of crap. He needs to know there are many certain types of personalities and most of all he must know NOT to engage with the damaged/ toxic/ very difficult people, even if they are part of their family.
Because you need to survive. As I said, only people who went through this exactly know what I mean.

When you have normalised stuff in your childhood that shouldn' have normalised, the first thing is to be aware of it and second you protect your children to.ensure it won't happen to them.

Oh, she really is emotionally manipulating him already. Your partner is wrong- this isn’t minor, it has a profound effect on the child that lasts into adulthood.
My mother was emotionally manipulative in many ways and it affected me and my sibling very badly. I learned how NOT to parent from her and my father. That said, I never felt any desire to play manipulative games with my kids in any case.
The first and only time I saw my mother try to emotionally blackmail my young son, I realised she was going to be exactly the same with my kids if I let her. So I didn’t, and went very LC.
Trust your gut OP. People who haven’t experienced this are excusing her behaviour and giving her the benefit of the doubt because they simply don’t get it - they don’t see what she’s doing and they don’t understand the effect on the child.
There is no excuse whatsoever for “I’ll never leave you” followed by repeated “I’m leaving soon”.

And @girlswillbegirls I agree 100%.