What are your thoughts on acupuncture? Does it work or is it just quack medicine?

[Houseplanter]

I'm talking so called 'medical' acupuncture that some GPs and physios advocate.

I'm really undecided.. my professional life tells me it's probably unfounded but on the other hand why would something that's been around for thousands of years not have been forgotten if it didn't work?

Has it worked for you?

I tried it for fertility but it didn't work. Gave up in it and got pg a few months later but I don't think it helped.

I had it for a rsi in my wrist and hand. I was truly sceptical but willing to try anything.

I was lying quietly while the needles were in may arm thinking 'this isn't doing anything' and I got an itch, without thinking I started to move my fingers to scratch and got the most massive jolt of I don't know what. It was like an electric shock, comparable to touching an electric fence, right in the area that the problem was. So whatever the needles were poked into it was definitely something to do with whatever was wrong!

It really did work amazingly, I was very surprised and very pleased.

What makes you feel that it's only value is as a placebo?

I’ve had it in the past and it’s worked really well. First lot was aged 25 with bad bad eczema that I’d had all my life to that point. Chinese medicine and acupuncture from a fantastic lady in Neals Yard… sadly no longer there. That was 25+ years ago and it’s not returned.

Now I have dry needling from my physio which seems to switch off various muscles in my neck and back that don’t respond so well to massage.

I think I'm skeptical because the science is so vague. I like research, data, evidence.

Alternative therapies will never have the funding for trials, sadly.
Doesn't mean they don’t work though, usually it just means that there’s no money in it for pharmaceutical companies.

@GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut
It was like an electric shock, comparable to touching an electric fence, right in the area that the problem was. So whatever the needles were poked into it was definitely something to do with whatever was wrong!

This was my experience too. It can’t have been suggestion as I had no idea it would feel like that, I assumed it just felt like needle pricks. I have carried on going and each time I can feel it working. It’s an extraordinary feeling. According to the acupuncturist not everyone can feel it working but you can still get a benefit.

Has anyone had any success with it for helping anxiety?

Cloud44, I was just discussing this with someone yesterday. I have a young relative suffering badly. Those who don't believe,a few years ago,you had the acupuncture facelift. I would have loved to have had it but can't afford it. I also felt weird sensations from the needles,a lot of which also had mocca applied. I felt really sleepy after a treatment.

This is fascinating. Has anyone used acupuncture for weight loss and found it helpful?

Im wondering if it helps with anxiety too?

I have read of people who have had success with acupuncture for weight loss, but no experience of that myself.

Proper clinical trials on acupuncture are difficult because you need a control groups and double blind tests to be fully tested as you would a new drug.

But there have been many trials conducted on it, and loads of convincing evidence, just google it.

Bizarre to read posters citing woo and placebo for what is mainstream medical treatment in China!
It's important to find an experienced, registered practitioner. Often those who have studied the herbs side can be helpful as an additional support.
My acupuncturist is amazing - former nurse, trained and spent months on the job in China years ago. She's in Leeds - the Jade Centre if any one is local.
Many specialise in particular issues such as fertility, pain management so that's also worth asking about when you are looking for someone.

I did a medical acupuncture course many moons ago. It's definitely beneficial for some patients in some circumstances, largely musculoskeletal pain. I had acupunture myself after I broke my shoulder and was left with a lot of muscle spasm and it worked a treat, without the unpleasant side effects of the drugs I needed to take otherwise. There's also been several well conducted studies demonstrating efficacy of acupressure for prevention of post operative nausea and vomiting.
I think there's some legitimate benefit from quite a lot of complementary medicine actually, but probably not via the traditionally believed mechanisms of action. The difficulty is picking out what's legitimate from what is indeed quackery but I would think that acupuncture delivered by a qualified medical professional is a pretty safe bet. At worst, it won't help much, but when done by a properly trained person with sterile needles the risks are extremely low so there is little to lose by trying it, for the right type of problem.

Yes definitely an option. Not quack.

I had it done a few times while being massively stressed (relationship & TTC woes) & I have to say it really did work, I felt so relaxed after, now in fairness my acupunturist was like a therapist too so maybe it was just the unloadin too.. but I'd definitly recommend it, cupping too

The famous sceptic Edzard Ernst explains why we shoudn't believe in acupunture: https://www.skeptic.org.uk/2023/02/acupuncture-remains-one-of-the-most-enduring-pseudo-therapies-even-though-it-does-not-work/

This JAMA review of reviews concludes:

Despite acupuncture having been the subject of hundreds of randomized clinical trials and systematic reviews for dozens of adult health conditions, there were few conclusions that had greater than low certainty of evidence.

If there were evidence surely it would have been found?

Anyone had acupuncture for neuropathy after chemo?
I have fizzy fingers and feet and it's driving me mad!

I've given it for that, it didn't work. Sorry.

That’s interesting, she had to seek out someone but we are speaking about almost a decade ago. I find it heartening that they do this now. But I must admit I think the stress relief was a massive thing in her case and all patients are different of course.

People see improvements from it. I have myself. Who knows if it’s actually the acupuncture that’s working or if it’s working as a placebo? But to some extent it doesn’t matter if some people are getting results.

I can't see it being a placebo, for me anyway.

My life was ruled by my condition, and I'd seen any number of baffled consultants who had tried various medications, to no effect whatsoever.

So it doesn't make sense that I went for acupuncture and it worked - for well over a decade now it's been gone - and that it was just a placebo. If that was the case surely any of the previous attempted treatments could also have worked, if it was just down to my desire and belief.

For the evidence people - Cochrane Reviews look at trial data to determine the effectiveness of different treatments.
This paper reviewed the acupuncture ones as follows:

Eight Cochrane reviews were included. They were all of high methodological quality. They related to a wide range of pain syndromes. Four reviews concluded that acupuncture is effective for migraines, neck disorders, tension-type headaches, and peripheral joint osteoarthritis; one review failed to demonstrate type the effectiveness of acupuncture for rheumatoid arthritis; and three reviews were inconclusive for shoulder pain, lateral elbow pain, and low back pain.

Conclusion
Several Cochrane reviews of acupuncture for a wide range of pain conditions have recently been published. All of these reviews were of high quality. Their results suggest that acupuncture is effective for some but not all types of pain.

Hi all, just a word of advice for those trying acupuncture for fertility. I went to the Everwell clinic in Chinatown for what I thought would be a highly respected practice but its absolutely awful and one to avoid. They try and upsell you into paying for a course without discussing anything with you first and you really feel the pressure, when you're meant to be trying to reduce stress. I've been in severe pain during a number of the sessions and hoping this post will help others avoid this!

I've had it for my bad back and it really helped. I think one of the reasons it helps with pain is that it stimulates bloodflow and so aids healing ( like inferential or using hot/ cold treatments ( I'm not a Dr tho! )