Why are middle & upper class children so confident?

[Staroftheseas]

This is really a sweeping generalisation but the majority of middle & upper class children we know are extremely confident. This has nothing to do with private or state education. In our state school the kids usually chosen for awards or solos are also from middle class backgrounds. They just have an inner confidence & polish that lower middle class & working class kids don't have.

I totally relate to that @SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun DH and I are very successful in our respective fields. Not to sound big-headed but with big profiles. However essentially we are a couple of kids from very working-class towns, first in family to go to university etc. I hate the fact I revert to that very unsure, lacking in confidence person I was in the past whenever someone superficially posh and polished is in my vicinity. It’s bloody hard to shake that off. It’s

Maybe that is what it all is - the scruffy clothes phenomenon or expectation of benefit of the doubt being given.

You know how middle class kids can be scruff or more unsupervised - but same situations with working class kids and professionals start to judge - or parents worry they will.

Isn’t it obvious? Our children are better than yours.

Is that what you are getting at?

But isn't it interesting that you seemed (if I'm reading your original post correctly?) to have interpreted the wealthier girlfriend's behaviour as confident, rather than rude, and the poorer girlfriend's as timid, rather than polite?

If they'd been reversed, and the poorer girl was the one helping herself and putting her feet on the sofa, do you think you would have seen that as evidence of bad manners or not having been 'well brought up'?

Though you're also making me think about cultural and generational 'styles'. For instance, my mother absolutely hates a confident child, or a confident woman. Men are apparently allowed to be confident, but she warms only to children who whisper and stare at their feet, and women who smile and say 'I don't mind' to everything. It is torment to watch her order in a restaurant, because she would think it was terribly rude and unfeminine to say 'I'll have the soup, and then the hake, please'. Instead, she will stare at the waiter and sort of pantomime indecision and say 'Oh, it all looks so nice, I don't know what to choose' and stare at him or her pleadingly, as though she'd like them to order for her...

School experience can break you, being treated as stupid, teachers getting exasperated with you, for not getting basic maths or English or simply being left behind
The curriculum is tight and little room for waiting or revisiting our school couldn't even revisit anything after covid eg great fire of London.

So that's one huge institution smashing our young dc because we have no safety net for any Sen at all even mild sen. Leads to massive self esteem issues and low life expectation.
Unfortunately because of their awful experience they can pass that into dc as well and they are dissconneted from education. So in turn they can't even help the if dc.

Non of that breeds confidence unless you happen to be the child of someone who has succeeded inspite of our system eg Richard Branson... Entrepreneurs, musicians and so on.

Being perfectly honest @FlaubertSyndrome i didn’t think of either behaviour as polite or impolite. I just saw it as confident and not confident. The polished girl has turned out to be a bit of a wrong ‘un since we met her.

I have to say that the one thing I envy in other people is a really good school education. Mine was awful (no one noticed I was clever, as the teachers were so demoralised, and classmates suspecting I was clever just meant I had to be good with my fists) and though I had an excellent university education, I do get misty-eyed over school curricula, or teachers supporting and encouraging their pupils.

@MoonshineSon

Strange post.

We need a huge variety of people in politics but they do need to be educated to some degree.

Perhaps the 6os comp system has failed if we don't see mote talented peoples from our state system in politics? Anyone can apply after all.

I don't care how rich or poor my mp is, I just need empathy, intellect, ability to think out of the box and the will to push on issues.

@Lassi agree it can be hard off specially if people act like you are inferior - it's like it triggers an internal imposter syndrome.

We moved to area so took empty places in closest school - had a bad reputation but was actually very good - only a few problem families and the kids bar one were nice. Tried to join local cubs for DS - as soon as they heard his school - it was a huge fight to get him a place in a pack low on numbers. We were persistent and got in - one session leader was gushing about how polite and well behaved he was - though person in charge of whats app group never managed to add us despite lots of chasing - always leaving us on back foot.

Little things like that - the somehow you are not welcome here behavior nothing so actionable you can directly call out and not have them plausibly deny but very much there.

I do not agree with this. I think it's defeatism.

Because their parents provide them with the resources to achieve. Extra curricular activities, socialisation, overseas holidays, nutritious meals. Family dinners at the dinner table every night makes a massive difference.

I had cousins who were just average kids growing up - solidly middle class. By the time they hit highschool their father was very wealthy and they all attended private schools.

I think education does make a massive difference but so does wealth. They have opportunities that most kids never ever have - or could even comprehend. Of course they would be confident adults.

You can understand a child living in poverty is not going to be the first to raise their hand. A child without appropriate clothes and shoes isn’t going to want attention to be drawn to them. A child in poverty is unlikely to go home to a family dinner at the dinner table to discuss what everyone has done with their day.

A child whose parents are unburdened with making the rent or putting food on the table are more likely to be engaged by their parents and encouraged to achieve. Not always - but usually.

This resonated with me based on my upbringing. My parents were “white collar, working class.” (That’s sounds dreadful doesn’t it!) Dad was a Civil Servant and mum stayed home with us.
I was also taught good manners and respect for others.
I therefore was a confident child and am a confident woman.

I've thought about this quite a bit

I've decided it's not about the skills they have or are taught.

I think its how other people respond to them that gives them the confidence.

People anticipate they will have a place at the table so when they ask to sit it's well a recieved and everyone says aren't they polished and confident.

Wheras people from.other backgrounds are sometimes told no or made to feel awkward. Time and time again. Then they have less and less experience to draw on.

@Exactlab I was going to say similar-i feel a lot of it is about stability and even if things go awry at various points it's less likely that things go to 'absolute shit' - I've also in all honesty (am not saying it doesn't happen) met few very outwardly volatile 'middle class families' -where kids felt threatened - more often if things were going wrong it was kind of 'hushed up and under the surface' rather than Eastenders style full family blow ups on a regular basis - as I say this may not be everyone's experience- but has been mine.

The World is a wonderful place for them, filled with interesting things, opportunities and the certain knowledge that whatever happens, they are safe, comfortable and will be absolutely fine because people will like them, they will be welcome everywhere they would ever be interested in accessing and there is absolutely no risk, physically, emotionally or financially in taking a chance.

Their comfort zone is so expansive that it's a tiny twitch to shift out of it briefly, knowing that it's easy to just pop back inside without harm.

This is both a blessing and sometimes a curse, because that then translates into taking stupid risks because they've never had to risk assess everything in advance - cars, sports, drinking too much and getting hurt by deciding to tombstone off a Devon cliff, for example - and when something goes wrong that they aren't protected from the consequences of, whether it's something physical, something financial where there is no help from anybody else because of death/job loss/disability/whatever or something emotional where they can't cope with university workloads, relationship breakdowns or suchlike, they've never been equipped to deal with it.

I think it's great for those who have had such an idyllic, safe childhood, but I do feel sorry for those who find out later that the world isn't always such a nice place - and the lack of understanding the different experiences people can have can lead to a lot of harm visited upon those less fortunate (and a shedload of offence).

Yes to this, @FacingTheWall.
I see this in American culture. Kids are expected to be heard as well as seen, and to get along with people of every generation, to order for themselves in restaurants, allowed to wear their own choice of clothing in school, and there's no concept of class either consciously or subconsciously imparted to them. They don't overthink things, and there isn't the tall poppy syndrome that holds kids back in some cultures.

It's very telling that the OP couches her remarks about confidence in terms of class.

You don't see a lot of proscriptive attitudes toward children having fun either - suburban sidewalks are often decorated with chalk drawings, etc, and nobody bats an eyelid at the concept of Halloween apart from members of certain churches who think it's satanic. I've seen comments here to the effect that it's appalling to encourage children to go knocking on strangers' doors asking for sweets, it turns them into grabby little brats, hell in a handcart, etc.

Class sizes tend to be much smaller than they are in British schools, so crowd control isn't such a big part of the school day. Kids and teachers alike can be more free and easy in their interactions.

I'm pretty middle class, was quiet and shy at school and was mercilessly bullied by the loud confident kids; many of whom were working class. But I suppose that's a different kind of confidence.

I don't think it's a class thing at all. I was a confident child, always performing, still am as an adult. I am most definitely not remotely close to middle class! I was from a single parent, sole income was benefits, household.
DS16 is also very confident and always has been. He has been afforded more opportunities than I was because we've had the money to do it, but still, it's down to upbringing which can mean any manners of things regardless of class.

I think a lot of confident people can come across as rude it's not confidence it's rudeness.

I don't mean those positive people who lift others up and have a different type of energy.

That's a description of weirdness that is guaranteed to knock all confidence out of a child.

What I see in the US is children accepted as they are - that is, children, with none of the nonsense of being expected to have 'proper' manners or speak as if they were little mini-sized adults at dinner parties.

A sense of superiority and a sense of self-assurance or confidence are not the same thing at all.

Self-assurance in children comes from being accepted as you are by the adults around you and gently guided toward growth at an appropriate pace.

A sense of superiority is an effort to hide deep insecurity arising from unrealistic expectations and from never being accepted just as you are.

I have American cousins on the east coast, New Jersey, Connecticut (sp!) & Manhattan. They are very elitist. From the start the kids were enrolled in the right schools, did the "right" extracurriculars mainly lacrosse, rowing, national debating, field hockey & all play instruments. Their whole childhood have been carefully cultivated & as teens are heading to excellent colleges such as Chicago, Georgetown, Villanova, Northeastern, Penn & Princeton.
My cousins had the wealth & know how to get their families the very best. My cousins & their kids come to Europe every year combining visiting the UK with a trip to another part of Europe. It all seems to be educational eg one cousin this year is visiting with her dh & kids, they are taking in London, Edinburgh, Rome & Sorrento.. I think American parenting is on another level completely!

I think there is a class element - in my fairly mixed school it was some of the working class kids who would knock anyone who was seen as trying too hard, and throw around lines like 'you think you're better than us, don't you?'. If kids won't engage in discussions in class they can be very uncomfortable doing in in work or social situations where they're not totally comfortable.

My mum was from a working class background, and saw education as incredibly important, but not all her siblings had the same view, and there was a bit of 'who do you think you are' from them too about my brother and I going to university.

I didn't say it was right. I was simply relating my own (reasonably expansive) experience which is all anyone can do. I believe you are right to an extent about children in the US. However, I also think you are labouring under the misapprehension that there is no such thing as class or privilege in the States. There is, in spades.

I've also seen displays of incredible entitlement, boorish rudeness and superiority based on their parents' income from American children.

I agree. I was brought up by a single mum in a very poor background (some children at my school had no shoes so took turns) but I learnt manners, curiosity and to educate myself. So I'm comfortable now in whatever company I find myself, and my children are the same.

Empathy in the Reform/Current Tory cohort is almost impossible to find. Farage is a blatant narcissist.
Are you insinuating that people are so badly educated out of the 93% of state school educated people that we cant find 400 odd people out of 70 million to do the job