Why are middle & upper class children so confident?

[Staroftheseas]

This is really a sweeping generalisation but the majority of middle & upper class children we know are extremely confident. This has nothing to do with private or state education. In our state school the kids usually chosen for awards or solos are also from middle class backgrounds. They just have an inner confidence & polish that lower middle class & working class kids don't have.

I think it’s more complex than that. I have very little confidence and I’m middle class. Went to a very middle class Primary school where other children shone much brighter, I was never really picked for anything or singled out. In my secondary school the more confident people were loud people who were popular, it wasn’t anything to do with class. More personality and confidence. If you were singled out for things in secondary school it wasn’t necessarily a good thing. I just kept my head down and flew under the radar.

My children are similar to me. My parents however were very confident and outgoing people.

This is so true!

My BIL & SIL have the most confident, outgoing children ever. They will have a go at most sports, clubs etc without hesitation. When you look at their mum and dad they are exactly the same - they strive to better themselves all the time, never speak negatively about others or themselves for that matter. It definitely rubs off on the children.

I’m going to throw in - drama lessons, clubs etc

you can tell a kid who does drama whatever their background. It gives you skills for life. Plenty of rich kids are not full of confidence btw - sadly some the very opposite

I’d love to work on my children’s confidence, they refuse to do any clubs and really kick off about even going to school, although that’s obviously non negotiable.

Because upper middle class and upper class children are more likely to engage with educated and interesting people. They are also given far fewer breaks when it comes to good manners and appropriate behaviour. Shyness and a refusal to speak or be seen are rarely tolerated.

They would be expected, for example, to sit at a dinner party table and talk with their parents' guests in an adult fashion on subjects ranging from politics to religion. They would enjoy skiing or yatching holidays where, again, adult behaviour, (to an extent), and articulate conversation would be absolutely expected of them.

They are also subliminally imbued from a young age with a sense of superiority.

I moved my children’s school and see a huge difference in confidence of these children (largely middle class) compared to their old school (largely working class).

I think it’s because they’re given far more opportunity to socialise and see more adults, and their opinions are better valued. Generally parents are better educated which does make a difference too.

Self-confidence is fine.

However arrogance, entitlement and looking down on others, including because of their 'class', or make sweeping generalisations are not.

Maybe something something you need to reflect upon...

It reflects the importance their parents attach to education, at any rate in the case of middle class kids. With upper class kids it's simply down to being upper class.

I was a working class kid who did not particularly like school and wasn't pushed by my parents. Ergo, I did very little I didn't have to and was never chosen for anything.

When I went out to work and saw my earnings directly depended on the effort I put in (OK this was a good while ago now) my attitude changed.

It's all down to parental encouragement and expectations IMO whether at Sate or Public school.

Something as well about how you hear the confidence. Imagine a bright faced, well dressed, posh accented child looking at you (probably white as well right??) and saying in a conversation something to challenge you, an adult. Laughing at you slightly scornfully. Even something simple. "No, I don't think that's right, that shop has closed down now/ Taylor Swift wrote that song not Olivia Rodrigo"

Now imagine it said in a more truculent tone, in a working class accent, by a child who looks less posh.

Which one sounds more "delightfully confident and opinionated"? Which one sound like "A rude little so and so"?

We have an expectation which reinforces at every interaction.

I tend to find the children from the private school near us are very quick to grab things (eg first in line at the local fete when thing handed out) - much more assertive, actually much more questioning and critical of authority. It sometimes comes across great and sometimes ...not.

Yes. I'm from a very ordinary background. Crap school, chaotic home life. Not very parented.

When I went to Uni (mid-2000s) I became friends with people whose parents were lords and aristocrats, or extremely wealthy. When I left Uni, I interned/temped at prestigious publishers.

I was just baffled. Everyone seemed so polished and confident. I was shy, awkward, could never not look scruffy. I didn't know what to say, how to carry myself, any of it. I hated myself for being so gauche, but didn't know how not to be.

However, it can be a veneer. Some of the people I knew have come apart at the seams in adulthood. Lots of mental health issues. Lots of competitiveness.

Many have been attending dance, acting, singing, and music classes since tiny, but the type of classes where children are the client and really encouraged and expected to shine and have self belief.
Sport and language classes are also often provided, but they are individually coached.
They are automatically taken to orthodontists, hairdressers, and brought reasonable quality clothes and good shoes, so don't worry quite as much about their appearances when really young.

They are taught how to eat at table, sit, stand and walk well, how to make conversation with adults, and travel broadens their minds before they know they need it it. They have some idea of cultural references, and issues with education are generally caught quickly and tutoring provided so they don't 'fall behind.'

Quality things and places are normal and open to them, security don't magically appear if they enter Fortnum and Masons or expensive shops, and they aren't placed by the toilets at the back in any good restaurant, so they feel comfortable and entitled to be there, or to be waited upon, served etc.

They learn from a combination of classes, parents, the reactions of those who services are purchase from, and osmosis how to present themselves to the world as belonging and being entitled to be wherever they choose to be and don't generally suffer from inferiority complexes. (as long as they don't go slumming at which point they often stand out as potential victims)

Class comes into it if and when it restricts movent and money, and a sense of 'entitlement' (as in towards anything better than what one has) and when other parts of society ensure their views of you are known, and when your own part reacts badly to your choices, and schools attempt to ensure you know your limitations better and long before your potential's been thought about,

I've been torn apart for my views on how to not let class and difficult beginnings hold your Dc's back before, so tin hat on.
Imagination, vocabulary, appreciation of quality, valuing education of all forms, manners, decency, a good sense of self, skills, and in our case the simple decision that whatever has been tried and tested to be good enough for the comfortably off, is likely to be good enough for my family too, even if I have to find different ways of obtaining it, and add it to our other skills.

We're from LC (me) WC (Dc's) with an appreciation of all sorts and all able to hold our own in any decent company of any class, and my Dc's and DGc's can and are expected to code switch and move between it all entirely comfortably and treat others with equal compassion, and remember the weight of a gilded cross can be heavier than an wooden one.

More money means more activities, foreign holidays and experiences. And less stress in the household.

Well, that's a complicated question

But mainly due to the parents and surrounding network being confident too

It rubs off on kids

In my experience (grew up on sink estate with parents on minimum wage jobs, went to Oxford, did a lot of subsequent degrees, now work in a professional field and live in a distinctly old money area), the British MCs are widely varying (as you'd expect) in confidence levels -- from the socially insecure, aspirant LMC type who worries about getting class shibboleths wrong, through ordinarily confident to people who appear permanently apologetic about their privilege, to hectoring types who just have a tin ear for tone and other people's needs.

And some are confident in a courtroom or yacht club, but would be absolutely petrified if dropped into the middle of a riot or a WC boxing club.

I think WC kids are more confident in most environments, actually. More responsibility younger, more freedom, more street smarts.

I am not convinced it is entirely class related. I think it really depends on parenting. My parents although middle class were highly negative and insular and from a young age in was instilled in me to not trust anybody. They both hated their jobs and did not have any close friends and as a result did not model any positive social interactions. They did however pay for me to attend a good private school and to have lots of experiences and foreign travel. I now lack confidence and struggle to interact with others.

It must help to know that you can never really mess up - if you fail, your parents' money and your connections will be there to mop you up, offer you a job, send you abroad for a few years, buy you a house and so on.

But I think you can also get confidence from parents who show unconditional love, acceptance and belief in you - who let you know that, even if you mess up, YOU as a person are still worthy and good enough and 'okay'. That can come from any 'class' or financial background, it's just good parenting... 🙂

There's a lot in this - their parents have an expectation that when they speak they'll be listened to and are used to having authority and autonomy, and that's passed on to their children. It's reinforced by the kinds of schools that parents choose for their children - ones that encourage children to develop debating skills and engage with staff as peers, versus more discipline led, authoritarian schools (e.g. modern academies).

Treating a child as if what they have to say is worth listening to is part of how that confidence is built up - or in the case of disadvantaged children, knocked down, and who's entitled to speak and participate is central to understanding how class functions in the UK.

This.

My DD is apparently very confident and has been given solo parts in school plays. Her private classes so far have only been dance classes which she hasn't done this year due to being crap at that form of dance.

I talked to my DP about this and oddly we are both confident with certain professionals due to who are parents mixed with socially but not not confident with others. Therefore we are trying to ensure our DD is confident in talking to anyone.

You’re going to notice the dc that shine. There could be as many little aristocrats skulking in the shadows, not drawing attention to themselves and you’d never know.

Attitude of the parents will give them either a look of self confidence or look like entitlement depending on whether they have reasons or not for their self confidence ).

More opportunities - eg they’ll have had music lessons early on so they will be the ones chosen for concerts.
And the opportunity to evolve in numerous different settings so they’ll have learnt how to behave/present themselves
Parenting: parents will have taught them that some behaviours are not acceptable and be stricter about it. Just see the RF and the princes and how well they’ve always behaved in public from a young age.

Because society teaches them - either implicitly or explicitly - that they are better than working class people. They grow up seeing people like them and their parents in positions of authority, while they see working class people cleaning their toilets, serving them drinks in cafes, delivering their post and being patronised by their parents in shops. That's why they're more likely to be socially confident compared to working class kids.

To be fair if someone speaks to me scornfully or is over pushy I automatically think their a dick whether they are young/old, black/white, posh/not posh, male/female etc

I’m going to add standard if living.

Very simply, even if your parents never talk about it, if you spend your childhood with parents who have a constant level of worry re how you are going to eat. Or if you can put the heating on, etc etc
It’s hard to be relaxed and feel things will go right.
Not when your direct experience is that things can go wrong - eg you need new shoes but you’ll have to wait until next payday.

Give it a few more pages and this thread will likely morph into a Labour are good Conservatives are bad 'discussion'.

I’d think arrogance rather than ‘delightfully confident’ tbh.

But I have to say there is a fine line between arrogance and self confidence.