Do your parents understand how much harder getting on the property ladder is today?

[formicha]

For some reason, my mum just cannot and possibly will not understand how much harder it is to get on the property ladder today.

Her two grandchildren are struggling to save up enough of a deposit for a small flat. All she has to add is that maybe the girls shouldn't go on a summer holiday and back when she bought one house, interest rates were 15%.

When I point out that her and dad would only be able to afford a two bed flat, maximum, if they were buying today, she doesn't believe me! She still lives in the 5 bed detached that they bought in the early 70s.

It is more difficult but things were different back in the day. Children tended to stay at home until they married so there was your incentive to save every penny and move out with 2 incomes. It was different. Equally few went to university so started saving much earlier. No holidays either!

And the work surfaces are always completely empty, which appears to be the summit of many Mners’ domestic ambition, and enough reason for many to acquire a Quooker (kettles being ‘clutter’).

I do suspect many of the evangelical Quooker threads are posted by Quooker employees…

If it’s the slightest corrective, I live in a semi-renovated wreck where the concrete-floored kitchen has a rough-filled hole in the wall left by whoever ripped out the Edwardian range, and the units are from 1986, when the couple we bought the house from initiated divorce proceedings, minus a bit I sawed off to make room for our fridge.

It will eventually be lovely, but not for quite a few years.

Yup, or at least on the threads I read on here. I don't find it so much with people I mix with.

We're not far off that but:

• we're 40, not 30
• we had family help with the deposit
• we live in NI where property is much cheaper

I don't think there's many Londoners in their 30s living that life.

MN has always skewed wealthier than the average population, and most users are older than FTBs.

I think they do get it…. I have much younger siblings and have had this conversation with them a few times. They do not want to give up their social lives/latest phone/nights out/car - when I bought my house we literally scrimped every month to afford it. There were no ‘extras’ for years.

Or even tried “mum your house is worth about £800k. The jobs you and dad had when you bought it would be paying about a combined total £60k a year now. That means they’d loan you around £240-300k, so you’d have to save at least half a million in deposit to pay the difference. The girls not going on holiday isn’t going to make much difference.” (Obviously change for likely real numbers.)

the reason many older people don’t get it is they have no idea what their house is worth, what wages their old jobs now pay, so the scale of how unaffordable it would be for them isn’t clear. Saying a vague “houses are expensive” doesn’t help, put numbers in. If need be, get rightmove up on your phone and show her what a house like hers is selling for and make the connection of how much you need to be earning to borrow that much now.

Screenshot of wages Vs property prices from the ONS. It is inarguably harder to buy now.

I agree that many people today don't understand how hard it was for previous generations.

My parents lived in a rented flat with no carpets and minimal furniture. They only had electricity when they could afford to feed the meter.

There was very little credit, just the man from prudential, and very different expectations of what having only the very basics meant. No holidays, cars, TV's etc. Walking 4 miles to and from work because you couldn't afford the bus fare.

Each generation has it's challenges, it shouldn't be a competition.

Urgh, yes! My DM is really frustrating. Bought first house when she got married at 20 with deposit from her DM. Then, to save for the next one (4 bed detached in SE), they lived off my Dad’s salary for a couple of years and saved hers. Impossible to do for DH and I due to astronomical mortgage costs.

Mum then had 3 x DC and didn’t go back to work again. Both DM and DF had very blue collar jobs and now have a house worth £600k and two BTL flats. No WAY would that be possible for someone of that age in a similar job these days. But she just won’t have it.

I feel very sad for young people today. I’m in my 40s and have scrambled onto the housing ladder (no help from DM/DF) but worry about DC.

Mine (in their late seventies) do get it, and are very sympathetic and frustrated on behalf of not just me & sibs but the whole younger generation. It's one of the things about them I really like and appreciate actually.

When my parents bought their first house they saved 100% of one person’s wages. I don’t know many people who do that today.

The thing is, they can't afford it regardless.

That's what you're missing.

If they lived like paupers they still couldn't afford it, so the token amounts they spend on a car aren't material to the end result. So they think fuck it, at least I've got a car this way.

@Fizzadora - so your first house cost 2 times your joint income.

That’s great, the average wage for a 22-29 year old is £30k, the average 2 bed house is £284k. Averages being what they are, I’m sure there’s some young people who are high earners in low cost housing areas who can do it. But for the average young person, the numbers don’t stack up even if they have a partner to buy with, don’t have uni debts and have parents who are willing to let them live for free while they save a deposit and stamp duty fees.

Well your mum doesn’t need to understand does she…..but she got a point about going on holiday….I mean it’s fine I’m not judging, but then they can’t moan about not having a deposit yet?…..I bought in 1990….we saved saved and saved….no holidays ….. did overtime so worked 7 days a week and no meals out etc until we had the deposit…..im not saying people don’t do that now but doesn’t sound like that’s the case for your kids?

we would still be able to buy a like for like first time house now with the same jobs we had( 2 bed terrace) I reckon….but we are NW England not south England. but we would have to go without holidays, days out, new clothes and meals out in order to save.
My DD is 30 ….she got a mortgage at 25……. My DS1 32 has a house and a rental flat ……it’s more the norm in these parts for working couples…..people have kids earlier as well….usually in their 20s …..but not flash houses….just smaller 2 or 3 bed terraces or semis.
there’s quite a lot of social housing where we are ……2 of my neices ( and their partners and kids) and DS2 ex partner all got new build properties last year …..council built a good few hundred…..and I’m always hearing about families who have bought their council houses on a right to buy scheme so got upward of 35% as a deposit .
i do think that young people in my area have advantages when it comes to housing

@StopInhalingRevels - yes, the fact it’s not affordable anyway is missed a lot. Even if you save £50k for a deposit, if the maximum the bank will lend you is only £150k, you still can’t buy that £280k flat.

I think that depends where you live ….it’s still affordable where I am in NW as long as both partners are in full time work

@Kitkat1523 - yes there are some parts of the country where it’s still possible but it used to be the whole country could do it.

and yes, you need to buy before having dcs or it’s not going to happen. Particularly if banks take into consideration childcare costs when deciding affordability of what they’ll loan you.

This was us! We picked up some chairs from an old people’s home that were going free …..we got a table from a car boot and we couldn’t afford flooring…..my first baby learned to crawl on a concrete floor …..we had no heating for the first 5 years….just a plug in oil filled radiator in the lounge until we could afford central heating

My mum worked for the police. She had to get special dispensation to get a mortgage as no one linked to the police could be in debt. She couldn’t get a mortgage alone as she’s female.

Absolutely.

And that's just a little flat. The idea you could ever just walk into buying the first homes that the older generations did in the same stages of life is just impossible.

My DNan never worked, and with 3 children 3 and under, on my granddad's welders wage they bought their lovely 3 bed in a picture perfect little village. That is now worth £550k. It's not even that big, but it's a pipedream to most. It was an average/slightly below average house to them.

My parents have what I can only call a portfolio. £16k four bedroom houses on ropey estates, worth £230k each now. Another £37k 3 bed, now at £425k. Many more.

It's the Amazon prime and Disney plus that DH and I "fritter" our money on that mean we can't buy the same.

Edited

Yes I understand. To the point I have helped them with deposits, uni fees and others to the detriment of my retirement.

BUT I also see an unwillingness to do without. They want new furniture, holidays abroad, coffees and meals out.

The maths is strong here...

I don't think many young people today CAN save half of their salary (i.e. each member of the couple saves half so they're effectively living off one salary) unless they're living at home rent free.

Not to mention not everyone is in a couple - it's extremely difficult for single people to buy.

😬😬😬