Do your parents understand how much harder getting on the property ladder is today?

[formicha]

For some reason, my mum just cannot and possibly will not understand how much harder it is to get on the property ladder today.

Her two grandchildren are struggling to save up enough of a deposit for a small flat. All she has to add is that maybe the girls shouldn't go on a summer holiday and back when she bought one house, interest rates were 15%.

When I point out that her and dad would only be able to afford a two bed flat, maximum, if they were buying today, she doesn't believe me! She still lives in the 5 bed detached that they bought in the early 70s.

Some people are just thick and like to feel superior as if it's because they made better choices.

Yes, your interest rate was 12% but your house was also £4.50.

And they don't seem to understand that they earned £8k a year, but the house was £20k. Now you earn £30k if you're lucky and the house is £200k. And 5% rate on a £200k mortgage is insanely more than 12% on a £20k one.

They don't want to hear it though. Just how they didn't spend £300 a year on Netflix and Café Nero and that's why. Like it makes any bloody difference.

Dh and I understood so much that we gave our dc each a house deposit.
We pay for lots of bits here and there for our dc.
We’re not wealthy but we know we’re fortunate and do our best to ease our dc’s lives.

Our first home was furnished with secondhand everything and we saved cash for each new item.
Our dc were bought two new outfits in winter and two in summer , I was given secondhand clothes and made clothes too. They also got presents of clothes.
Our first car was so old that the insurance cost as much as the car.
We ate out twice a year, our anniversary and Christmas work outing.
If we wanted to socialise we invited people round.
We never went to cafes for coffee.
We had one holiday a year, Butlins or a cottage in Devon.

However we were still in a better position than youngsters now because we knew wages would go up and houses were so much more affordable.

Above all we had optimism.
I feel that anyone under 45 hasn’t got that anymore.

It’s awful and I am so sorry for you all.

My DF does but my DM really doesn't. I mean, she'd say she does if you asked her and she'd agree it's more difficult, but then she will say things like we did x y and z on this salary, and often sends nice houses for sale to me and my siblings as suggestions. Except they're always completely out of our price ranges. She has no concept of the amount that any of us would feasibly be able to lend in a mortgage even though we are all pretty transparent about our financial situations etc. I think this is all down to the fact that my DF has always basically ran all their financial affairs for their whole married lives (30+ yrs), shes also been out of the workforce for most of that time.

My DF has a much better understanding though and has helped both me and my DSis get on the property ladder with some financial support and lots of financial and practical advice. He will do the same for DB when he is ready to buy too.

I point out to anyone that will listen that me and DH (boomers) lived with our parents while we saved for a deposit between 1980 and 1982. Our combined wages were about £7k. We saved up £1400 for a 10% deposit on a tiny two bed terraced cottage that needed doing up. There was two of us, neither of us could have afforded to buy a house by ourselves. We didn't go on holiday or go out or have takeaways. Our priority was that deposit. Our mortgage was £160 a month which was well over 25% of our net income and every bit of furniture and household stuff was second hand or wedding presents.
Now, two people on average wages/ salary of £35k still living at home with parents should easily be able to save up £14k in two years which would be a 10% deposit on a tiny two bed terraced cottage for £140k which is what they cost here in the North West.
So bollocks to all those who say how much harder it is now. It isn't.

My kids are in their 30s, one is a homeowner and one has no chance. I completely understand how hard it is today and so do all my friends of my age.

Yes. I was helped with a deposit, I could never have afforded it alone.

My mother is still struggling to come to terms with me buying a house DH hadn’t seen, other than on FaceTime. Actually, I think she’s still coming to terms with me ordering wine when there were MEN at the table.

My parents (in their 80s) inherited a (tiny, dreadful) house from my father’s uncle (which involved us living with two great-uncles and a grandfather for many years), have never had a mortgage, and regard all mortgages with fear and horror. During Covid and a complex international move, we had to use my parents’ house as a postal address, and at one point I had to ask my father over a WhatsApp video call to open a document needed for the sale of our old house which stated the amount of our outstanding mortgage on that (about £250k, as we hadn’t owned it long) and read it out to me. He looked as if he’d seen a ghost!

Yes but me and my DH got zero help from our DP’s. I can honestly say they never cared anyway. They continue to not care.

My DC has 10 k saved and I will try and help them make that up to 50k.

They are realistic where and what they can afford. Luckily they have dual nationality so they can look to other countries with better healthcare and more affordable housing after they graduate Uni if they choose to. Or they can retire to one like us.

Did your parents help you?

Sure, but:

1. Plenty of people live nowhere near an area where they could buy any property for that price. And moving isn't always so easy but it can make getting another job very difficult/expensive with commuting costs depending on what you do, and if you want to start a family it can be much more cost effective for childcare and not to mention nicer for everyone for remain in an area with a support network. You could just about buy a 2-bed flat in my area for that much which don't get me wrong would be enough for a small family and we would have done that if we couldn't have stretched a bit more for a house. But I know in lots of other places that wouldn't even buy a 1-bed flat.
2. Plenty of people earn far less than £35k a year. I'm early 30s and have never earned close to that, and DH has only earned around that for the last couple of years (same age).

I understand, which is why I’ve given my children financial help now rather than have them wait until I die.

As if by magic😆

Yes, your £14k house on £7k income is totally the same. Totally...

Oh, and we know you'll bang on about it to anyone who'll listen, you don't need to tell us that...

1. Where you live isn’t representative of the UK in general. I assume your local average wage probably isn’t £35k. It is unusual to be able to buy a property for 2x household income.

2. ‘we lived at home’. Not everyone can live at home and live off their parents as adults, plus a partner

3. ‘we didn’t have any holidays’. For… the two years you were saving? This is a slightly different prospect to not being able to take a holiday for most of your twenties

Two bedroom cottages round my way cost £600k+. Your young couple would have no hope then.

Yes.

My mum understands. Not sure about my PIL, they're financially literate but there's no one in the extended family at that age so they may have lost touch a little.

My dad did like to talk about the interest rates when they bought in the mid 80s, but I pointed out that they bought their house on one decent but not particularly high salary. Whereas my best friend and her husband had two high flying solicitor salaries and no kids and couldn't afford to buy a three bed semi on my parents' road. He took my point but I don't know that he ever believed it truly. That was nearly ten years ago so I like to think he would get it now.

On the property threads on here people seem to be able to buy large houses with large kitchens where they can sit around the island watching their young children, making tea with a Quooker tap

Bank of England inflation calculator

A house bought for 7k in 1982 would sell for 24k now if house prices had risen at the same rate as everything else

I'll bet it goes for five to ten times that - and that's why it's so bloody hard - if you struggled to save for a couple of years. imagine having to save ten times that for your deposit

The only other thing to remember though is that inheritance is much more likely ( because of those inflated house prices ) so actually quite a few younger people are still getting their own home

@Fizzadora my parents bought in the London commuter zone (just about) in their very early 20s in the 70s. Not in the north. They were blue collar workers and paid the mortgage on one salary once DC came along. I agree it could work nowadays if flexible working allowed WFH anywhere, but that's a relatively small and privileged section of th workforce. We're not exactly comparing apples to apples if we're only talking about remote workers who live in Burnley!

So bollocks to all those who say how much harder it is now. It isn't.

I disagree with this.

My DH and I bought our first house, a 1930’s extended three bedroom semi at the age of 27 and 30. We used 3.7k I had saved from student loans as the deposit. It was a cash back mortgage which meant we got the 5% deposit back. We then used the 3.7k to pay for our entire wedding the month after we bought our house in South East England.

Our house cost 77k in 1996, I looked it up recently and admittedly it’s been renovated beautifully and it’s worth around 450k.

We sold the house 16 months after buying it for 96k and the equity became the deposit for a 4 bedroom detached house with 2 en-suites and 3 reaction rooms. I was 28 when we bought this house, it’s now worth about 600k. We only lived there 3 years before upgrading again.

We did all this without any savings and were incredibly lucky. This is why I want to help my DC as much as I can.

My mother does find it hard to believe - every time a house goes for sale on her road she struggles to wrap her head around the prices

Whilst she find it hard to believe / understand why prices are so high she can perfectly see why that makes house buying difficult

Yes. We will.

In our case, my parents are giving us an enormous early inheritance. From owning several houses that they bought for fuck all. Because that's what houses cost in the 90's.

In my friend's case, she bought at 18 (roundabout yr 2000) and has benefited from her property more than quadrupling in value, so has that on her side.

Basically, we're both benefitting from the historical property market because it's the only way you can get on the current one.

My parents understand. But they also don't vote Tory.

Have you tried the basics - like “mum they only let you borrow 4 times your salary. Some on £30k, could borrow a maximum £120k, which is what someone with [insert name of job your mum had in her early 20s when she bought a house] is earning now. That wouldn’t buy you a flat in our town. To buy your house, someone would have to be earning £xk a year and have saved £yk for a deposit.”

My dad is in his 80’s, very sharp, but has to be reminded constantly that every home he has ever had was equal to 1 year of his salary, and where we live in the SE a starter home is 15 - 18 times what most people in their 30’s working for the main local employers would be on (with graduate degrees etc). It’s a completely impossible situation if you don’t have parents who can give you a deposit.

Why does she need to understand?
Just don't discuss it.

I don't think my Mum really thinks about it, I understand why and I think our expectations have changed. She had things tough growing up, it was bread and jam for tea, squashed in a bed with three siblings, she used to go with her Dad to his Saturday job and help out, and earn some eggs or crumpets for the family as a treat on Sunday, they had a roast as they killed their own prey in country and grew own veggies - basically a very basic life style. She met and married someone who had a good job, but he was willing to work evenings and weekends for them both. Eventually they bought a house that was a doer upper, but it was an achievement if they could afford a can of paint to do another wall.