So they want to replace PIP/DLA money with vouchers?

[moneyinthebinthatsmrtim]

I don't understand it. It is really worrying me.

This payment helps pay for so many things. I doubt these vouchers would cover that, or give the freedom to shop or buy from where you want or need to.

I included DLA because it's really just the child's version of PIP. Eventually, my profoundly disabled child will be an adult and will have to be on PIP

Is there really any truth in this? I can't see any articles directly quoting Labour or Conservative. I might just be in such a worry that I have missed that bit

Apologies if there is another thread on this too. I am happy to get this one taken off if that's the case

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/pip-disability-benefits-plan-rishi-government-critics-b2537209.html

He is a good vote for carers.

I do however think that the balance swung too far towards people with mental health problems rather than physical ones.

I'll believe you when and only when people stop dying from suicide.

That's linked to the false economy approach

More people are getting more ill because of poor public services, and actually because of a punitive benefits system (poverty and poor health are interlinked).

Lots of people wait too long for healthcare. Delayed or misdiagnoses. So they get more ill and need benefits. Or they don't get access to decent social care support so fall further into a crisis and their health worsens. So they need benefits. Or they're in substandard housing. Which affects health, so they need benefits.

Good well-funded public services, supportive benefits system, and more social housing would go a long way to addressing this.

You have to exaggerate your condition otherwise you won't even get the minimum.

I don't even get the correct amount when I exaggerate. I have a blue badge and don't get any mobility component (explain that). Plus, the assessors use all sorts of bullshit tactics to reduce the points you get. Apparently I can get in and out of a bath because I can get in and out of a car (completely different scenarios imo).

(You don't need pip to get a blue badge, you can apply with it through forms. I used the exact same evidence and didn't exaggerate at all and got accepted for a blue badge twice)

How would they issue vouchers and what type of vouchers... eg, for therapists, for electricity,specialist food and clothing, for equipment,for travel? I can't see it working in any way. The genuine needs are so varied and unique to the individual and what support they need.

That said, my friend spends hers on holidays, eating out, botox, massage, nails, hair, and lip fillers. But then I don't think she genuinely needs it. She did get additional money for a cleaner and lifts to the cinema etc by council, but they withdrew it when she was caught on a day out.

I think they think people don't need as much as they are getting. Obviously some do but not all. I am on a lot of benefit forums and people are often asking how they can keep their means tested benefits because they have built up savings of 16k etc.

What on earth is your point?

That anyone who is suicidal is on PIP? That they should be on PIP? What a truly strange post. People take their own lives for all sorts of reasons. Ironically my own progressive neurological condition has a high suicide rate but because I'm determined and relentlessly optimistic I almost talked myself out of PIP because the balance is in favour of people bleating about how depressed they are. Fortunately I had an excellent assessor who understood my condition and told me plainly that I deserved PIP and that I would need it as the years go by.

Rather than PIP suicidal people need mental health interventions by trained professionals. This might include assessments, trauma therapy, medication, community supports, supportive workplaces etc. Shoving them some PIP isn't going to do anything other than trap them on handouts in a state of perpetual dependence!

Posters have already stated enough reasons why this voucher scheme would be totally unworkable, and how it would lead to more admin, and stress, for people who already have enough on their plate, trying to manage their day to day lives, or their disabled child's lives. So you are not talking for myself, or many others, when you so boldly state "Maybe vouchers are the way forward.. those who genuinely need help with day to day living will be happy to use them, those who only want cash will be very upset"

Which they won't be.

People will always die by suicide, it will never happen that people 'stop dying by suicide'.

It's a myth that suicide is a symptom of a mental health problem.

Some MH problems can increase the risk but it's a dangerous, unevidenced fallacy to state that the very real public health issue of suicide is ever a single issue cause.

There are vey real, rational reasons why some people choose to end their lives.

There is also very significant evidence that many suicides are impulsive and under the influence of drugs or alcohol - which also, doesn't necessarily mean that person had an alcohol or substance misuse disorder; just that they were under the influence at the time.

I use mine to pay my mum to help me a few hours a week. How will vouchers pay for care from a friend / family member who earns too much for carers allowance?

Benefits are a financial, not a moral, issue.

The fact is our current spending on benefits is unaffordable. More people claim than ever and the current projections are scary.

Why don’t they just help for free? A few hours is hardly a full time job is it?

Oh yeah she has substantial savings too and moans if she has to use them eek

But surely we won’t be taking from the most dependent and vulnerable when looking for where to save money? We can and must do better than that.

I believe you are not entitled to carers allowance if you earn £150 plus a week. So £600 a month and you can’t qualify. Perhaps they need the money.

What do you suggest we cut?

Let’s start with the strongest and most privileged.

Why should they? PIP is to pay for extra costs. It would cost the state far more to provide me with carers.

Some of that money pays for petrol. On Tuesday I have to visit a hospital 11 miles away and the following week, a different hospital 6 miles away.

Would you do those things for free? Bearing in mind (work know) it means being half an hour late for work. And they're a good 2 miles away from me.

It is dehumanising. It's saying that some members of society cannot be trusted to make choices and should only have what "we" believe they should have. It's to discourage people from applying.

This isn't what I pay my taxes for. I pay for all members of society to be treated fairly. Honestly it just gets worse.

I have a dsd who gets it and we use it to pay for her psychologist.
My understanding is it is supposed to help cover the specific costs related to the health condition.
Therefore in theory vouchers would work and I don't have a problem with them.
So you have a disability which makes you unable to drive or use public transport but you need to get to hospital appointments for example, taxi vouchers would cover that.
You have a disability which means you need help cleaning your house...vouchers for a local cleaning company would cover that ...
I can see why many people think this money is free cash and people use it for meals out/takeaways/botox/holidays etc..and it i snot meant for that and therefore vouchers would stop that .
However, the administration of such a scheme would be so costly it is a ridiculous idea, everyone is an individual with individual needs, how would a system be able to work that out and give you the right vouchers ? and who would assure that the companies providing the services wer giving value for money etc.
I honestly think this would be more open to abuse than the current levels of abuse of the PIP system

If it’s any consolation most parents/partners provide far more financial and physical support than the state ever could or would.

Because she’s your mum and it works out at 30 minutes or less a day? Where does the line get drawn? I care for my children 24/7 when I’m not working, should I be paid? My partner cares for me as I have a chronic condition, probably the equivalent of 2 hours a week, should he be paid?

I mean does family mean nothing and does every tiny thing we do for anyone who isn’t ourselves deserve financial compensation?

I work with a lady. Full time worker two kids earns £32k looks after two elderly parents. Never sleeps is ill with worry. Doesn't get any help. She's doing like 15 hour days.
She is amazing at her job but I can see she is burning out. She needs to go part time and get a top up but she can't with mortgage etc. Its not right.

@TomeTome....exactly !
we fund huge amounts of my adult dsd care because the state have failed her so badly