Thread 49 Sunak: He Left them on the beaches

[DuncinToffee]

3 Weeks to go

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https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5090939-thread-48-sunak-capsized-on-the-ship-of-lies?page=40

Then my dh (born and bred Glaswegian) would say that they weren't really Glaswegian! ...I was brought up in Bearsden and Milngavie and get that from him all the time, as they're outside the city boundary

My parents were Irish, came over in the late fifties my Dad in particular was fairly left wing was very active with unions & detested thatcher I think she pushed him even further left, my two have no real interest in politics.

My father came to this country during WWII after he was taken on by the RAF despite not speaking a word of English. The RAF gave him a new life and he was forever grateful. I remember he told me that 2 officers told him to buy a Collins dictionary and to read The Daily Telegraph to learn English. I think that's probably what influenced his political choice and he was 100% Conservative till the day he died.

Obviously the Tory party was a completely different beast back then and I really think he would be horrified with what the party has become today. I'd say he was old-school Tory.

I was born at the very start of Gen X and wasn't hugely interested in politics when I was younger but was always saw myself as Tory-lite in those days.

However, the older I get I am definitely becoming much more left wing. I absolutely despise what the Tories have done to this country in the last 14 years and I can't wait to see the back of them and will also be dancing in the streets on election night.

(sorry, didn't intend to make my post so long)

@Evenstar I do really like AR and Jess Phillips. I am looking forward to having more women talking sense centre stage.

Dd is also keen on Labour's plan to allow 16yo vote although apparently she knows more Tories than me! I think that is what they are saying is swinging the far right vote in Europe, the young vote?

Agree totally @MrTiddlesTheCat they've raided it all. I think Labour will need a dept to take stock of who has squirrelled what away where and have some public Court cases. I don't know how Boris avoided prison to this day.

Just on another thread about not bothering to vote because "they're all the same".
Who was it on here who posted a brilliant article summing up what good Labour did in their time in office? Two people have actually said they're old enough to remember the last labour government and they're all the same!

@DuncinToffee was it you who posted about the good done by the labour party?

I'd be wary of believing anything said by a desperate Tory minister on their way out, clutching at straws.

@Zonder I think a lot of these threads and similar on other social media are being started by bots to try and suppress the vote

The young are voting for the far right in considerable numbers in Europe. That's mostly driven by promises of housing and jobs. It'll be very interesting to see what happens to that share of the vote when the far right actually has to deliver on its promises.

Absolutely. Desperate attempt to stop people voting labour.

I think we have just had the most far right party and they've not really been held to account to deliver on anything it seems until this last year. Every year they've won and when they got Leave I've wondered at why people keep expecting it to make a difference voting right, but somehow it's all changed this year. If Europe have over a decade of what we just had the world will look rather different in a few years, not for the better.

I don't think you can compare those two things though. The UK basically has a two party system under FPTP. European countries largely have PR. The Netherlands have had Geert Wilders' PVV in government before, via a confidence and supply deal. The coalition did not last long and it was the PVV who was hit hardest and blamed most for not delivering in the election that followed. The political pendulum will swing again. Things look bad now, but it is not inevitable that Europe will turn into a swamp of far right countries.

I was in Glasgow recently. Everyone I spoke to is voting SNP as they hate Starmer! 😬

Jealous - would love to see her speak love, I think she’s a wonderful advocate for the left and women (despite Labour not knowing what a woman is - I think she bloody knows as a single young mum!)

I know Poland has been getting further right and have several friends who say they don't recognise a lot of the things people seem to agree with (which all sounds familiar to our last decade) but the rise in misogyny is undeniable and that getting a deeper foothold is worrying. I'll trust in the PR system for them and support the party here saying they'd bring it in.

Same as my in-laws. DH is the generation born to Irish settled parents. I remember the day of the referendum and he said “I could never vote Leave otherwise where would my family be now?”.

Poland's last election went in the opposite direction, not further right.

I must have missed that! Thanks!

@fabio12 I'm a millennial too, completely left wing. Have to say both my DPs are boomers and very anti Tory, so not all hope is lost on the boomer generation

Oh yes @prettybird I remember walking down to the polling station to vote with one of my DC the evening of the day they had done that same higher English paper and the disgust at Julia Hartley-Brewer's patronising article about how 16 year olds shouldn't be allowed to vote. It was a delicious extra on a momentous day.

@Evenstar that sounds brilliant. I have really warmed to Rayner.

@IClaudine. I reckon snp voters are more vocal than people who don't want Scottish Independence. If you don't think Scottish independence is a good idea, for whatever reason - (I believe there are ethical reasons to prefer to work for a better UK) you're likely to be painted as a rich, nasty Tory.

@Piggywaspushed - I'll repeat the story I tell frequently about Robert Maxwell of the Kings Fund telling a group of us on an accelerated high level introduction of senior NHS management on 5 November 1991 (there's a reason I remember the date ) that the foundation for the Welfare State and the NHS was the two world wars and in particular WW2, where "we were all in it together" and a growth in the sense of communal and societal responsibility. He said that ever since then we had been moving back to the supremacy of the individual/individual needs with the exception of Scotland , where there was still a belief in societal responsibility. I have a clear memory of looking around the table at the others (a group of about 15 who'd been brought into a pilot scheme for the NHS for senior managers) and every. single. one. of. us. were either Scottish or Scottish Uni educated.

Now, that was over 30 years ago where have the years gone and I would say that even in Scotland, some of that sense of "communal good" has dissipated, but not completely.

Even the Conservatives that we do have tend to be the "One Nation" type Tories, not the ultra-right loonies like we see too many of in England.

And to our credit (or is it shame? ) we've only ever had one elected UKIP/Brexit representative - unfortunately an MEP (from 2015 - 2019 the execrable David Coburn who took the place of a LibDem MEP).

If you wanted to look up to intelligence, then JHB wouldn't be on speed dial. She is spectacularly dim.

In 2010 I recall her whining about "nobody voted for a coalition" which completely and utterly missed the fucking reality that under the UK constitution, millions of people just had. Because that's how it works.

She confirmed the "as pig shit" grading of her alleged intelligence (more like learned responses) when we had a Tory-DUP coalition that nobody voted for either, and she said not a word.

Fabio I really hope this is one of the first things Labour do in regard to properly investigating where great swathes of public money has gone another one who would love to see Johnson banged up along with a fair few ministers Jenrick is another one who is decidedly dodgy along with Gove.

Yes, agree with all this.

It's the 'would you leave your handbag at a table in a cafe?' question!

Scotland is a collectivist country, basically, along with the Scandinavian countries.