How within/outside the bounds of normal is this? (11 yo talking about 'sex')

[ShadesOfPemberley]

Have n/c for this as don't want any chance my friend's daughter recognises me.

DD is Y6, is friends with a girl she made friends with in Y1, they've really nothing in common any more but friend is very possessive of DD (and doesn't have many other friends)

Y6 is the year that sex and relationships education cranks up a notch, I know, so some of this might be totally within the bounds of normal given that they're sort of getting intrigued.

DD is getting more and more upset/worried by friend who is constantly talking about:

teachers' 'big boobs'
what a penis might feel like if you touched it
'balls and testicles' (she is apparently bouncing on space hoppers in the playground and saying they look like mens' balls)
whether or not everyone's parents are sexually active (she says she hears 'noises' coming from parents' room)

and other things that DD says she's too embarrassed to tell me.

There are other similar things she's said too but I won't just go on and on.

Is this just a child being silly/ a child getting interested in the mysteries of sex/bodies at an age-appropriate level OR is this totally not within the bounds of normal?

DD is getting very wound up and upset by it, partly because she worries other people at school will think, because this girl is her 'friend', that she's associated with it too. Also I think she's creeped out by it, she is coming home really unhappy about it (it sounds constant, and even if she walks away, friend follows and carries on) and is worried to tell a teacher in case she gets 'friend' in trouble.

I will happily tell a teacher on her behalf because it worries me that friend is talking like this. But am I over-reacting?? Issue complicated by fact I'm also friends with child's mum. Do I gently say anything to her??

I don't want to create an issue where there doesn't need to be one. But this isn't the norm, right??!! Am going round and round in circles. Advice much appreciated.

It’s a safeguarding concern. Report to the DSL at school.

That's what my gut instinct is, JaneAustenshandbag (love the name) - thanks for posting.

Id report too. I'd send an email containing what you've written here.

Thanks Rambly.

Silly question perhaps but if it's a concern to the DSL rather than eg a complaint of bullying, does it remain anonymous? I would so much rather my friend doesn't know my fingerprints are on this.

It's so awkward. But I agree is safeguarding concern, I can't stay quiet.

As the DSL to keep your name out of the conversation.

Sounds like we were talking about at that age 70 years ago.

At that age we did a lot of speculating about sex so I don't think it's unusual for kids that age to be talking about it. I'm more concerned that your DD is so uncomfortable around her and I think a discreet conversation with her teacher is needed.

Thx WhatNoRaisins, it's good to get that view too. DD IS v uncomfortable around her for other reasons too, so maybe that's clouding her view of what might be a more standard (not creepy) conversation with another kid.

If it does turn out just be all talk and nothing sinister then she needs some adult guidance on how to reign it in and recognise when she's making people feel uncomfortable.

I cringe when I think of some of the stuff my friends and I talked about at that age. I think we were just trying to make sense of it all, the whole act seems so bizarre when you analyse it as a kid when you have never experienced desire.

Yeah, you've put that really well. It's the fact she's not stopping when DD says she's had enough of it and doesn't want to talk about nothing but 'sex'. Reining it in would be an improvement.

I think the frequency is concerning.

That's true, and as I sit here now I remember when I was 8 my sister's 10 year old friend telling me in great details how men and women 'rubbed their bodies together' and I was so grossed out!!! It's really occurring to me now that the issue is this child won't stop doing it and isn't getting the message to tone it down a bit if someone is uncomfortable.

A word with the teacher might help, she's good with them all and might have some strategies.

Ever since they did their sex Ed (can’t remember official acronym) in year 5 the word ‘balls’ used in any innocent context has led to an eruption of giggles in my dd’s whole yr 6 class. So that bit is normal to me. Some fascination with breasts as they begin to develop them themselves would also be normal, but they will be being taught to approach these things respectfully. The other aspects are worrying and also more adult in their focus. While my yr. 6 dd and her friends very much have these things on their mind it’s still very much in a giggly, it’s still all super embarrassing to imagine doing anything like fancying or wanting to kiss someone themselves kind of way and they’re still very comfortable discussing things like this in front of parents, and lots of ‘eewww susssy’ when people kiss in movies etc. They are definitely not at the level of wondering about the kind of things you mention and I’d wonder where that was coming from if my dd said any of her friends were saying stuff like that. But equally some kids get there ahead of others, depends on older siblings and things at home perhaps? I’d maybe speak to your dd’s teacher in the first instance if it’s making your dd uncomfortable and they can explore things with the other child as they see fit. They will have safeguarding training. But I do remember having a friend a bit like this when I was yr 6 age and feeling weird that she was so curious about stuff I just wasn’t wondering about yet.

Yeah, she's like a dog with a bone (no pun intended) - I think ANY topic gets pretty overwhelming if it's all you talk about

When I taught sex Ed in pshe (to any year group) I always emphasised that this discussion was to be had in our "safe space" sessions in the classroom, or with their adults at home. We always said that it wasn't for younger siblings, nor to be discussed at playtime or lunchtime. Not because it's a bad thing to talk about, but just telling them about appropriate conversations.

I'd want to know about this and would pass it to the DSL, so you should pass it on. It could be a piece in a wider picture about this girl (or not, but better people are aware).

What you've listed sounds like silly chatter. I'd be concerned about what DD won't tell you.

As you've already said you'll flag it to school and they can use their judgement as to what further action is required if any.

Whilst you are at it I would ask them to address the possessiveness, keeping the girls separated in lessons to give your DD some respite.

Appreciate the advice and replies a lot, thanks MN.

I'm a teacher and I would say that at that age, it's certainly normal to be curious and have a giggle about it (the noises from the bedroom for example is quite a typical one).
However, I'd be concerned about the fact it's very frequent and it's making others uncomfortable. It's important they learn about it, but at the end of the day, it's very sensitive and private, and to talk and joke about it, especially if it concerns others, is inappropriate.
Have a word with the school. They'll nip it in the bud.

If it was one or two of those things and maybe immediately after sex ed lessons then I’d say it was normal, but the frequency and the fact she doesn’t stop less so.

I would speak to school in that it’s bothering your child. If they then think it’s inappropriate they can investigate further. They may also have some details but this might cement it further.

There was a little boy obsessed with his penis in my son's primary and flashing. Even they as young as they were thought it was a bit much. What you are describing is not the norm. Yeah odd words and a giggle but not the fixation element.

It could be a safeguarding issue or it could be just her clumsily talking about sexual things and trying to make sense of them. At that age and younger we had a simple sex education book with pictures but some of our playground rhymes revolved around sex and naughty words. Of course most of us didn’t even know what it meant!

She shouldn’t be talking about it if your DD finds it uncomfortable though.

teachers' 'big boobs'
what a penis might feel like if you touched it
'balls and testicles' (she is apparently bouncing on space hoppers in the playground and saying they look like mens' balls)
whether or not everyone's parents are sexually active (she says she hears 'noises' coming from parents' room)

these sound normal to me, the parent one is a bit gross but ok.

Sexual curiosity doesn't come on your 16th birthday. It doesn't even start when you have sex ed.

But it may be worth sending an email anyway, because she's talking about it a lot. Even if nothing is 'wrong' it's making other people uncomfortable so worth letting teacher know.

I had a friend like this at primary school. She was the exact same way from about ten years old. I used to sometimes giggle but I remember getting really bored by it all and also upset (to myself-I never told her) when she'd do things like make my teddies hump each other. I was very precious about my toys.

It just got boring really quickly. All the other kids could have a giggle but she was constantly on about sexual things. Nothing sinister going on, she just had sex on the brain. Some kids are like that.

I second this in primary especially. I work in secondary now and yes, we hear kids say stuff but not generally like this.

School need to be informed and this needs to be logged. It's not OK.