Where do you stand politically on crime and punishment?

[TERFCat]

I'm quite left wing, except on gender/ sex and crime and punishment.

When I was younger, I used to be very left wing on C&P. I wanted to abolish prisons, legalize drugs, and decriminalize sex work.

I'm 30s now and my life experience has made me quite right wing on C&P. I've seen far too many innocent hard-working people have their lives and businesses ruined by crime. Often, the criminals don't get punished and are free to do whatever they're doing again and again and again.

This week, we had that "dine and dash" couple finally jailed, but when you see how many times they'd committed the offense, it's mind-boggling that this is the first time they've been punished for it!

We also had that poor young watch dealer who killed himself after being robbed. The two men who did it probably won't get long in jail, ever as their victim and their family have a life sentence.

I want longer jail sentences and less tolerance for excuses.

Jail sentences seem to be getting shorter, due probably to overcrowded prisons.There are many many young men particularly, who have been brought up in care or who have mental health problems in the prison system, who when released go on to re offend as there’s nothing and nobody out there for them.
That isn’t an excuse it’s an explanation and the system needs to change.
Any violent crime should be punished properly.

Prison in the current form isn't working. It needs to be split into rehabilitation and punishment facilities. In rehabilitation it needs to be properly funded and supported with therapy, drug rehabilitation and skills teaching so people can return to the community as functional human beings. Two strikes and they're into punishment- basic rations, a few books to read, no frills. Mental health support on tap until they are ready to engage with rehabilitation.

It would take two generations to bring about radical social change and by then we'll be so swamped by climate refugees we'll have other problems to deal with.

I follow what The Prophet says, and I can't quote it or be bothered to link it BUT - 'the one thread shall be traced back to the whole weave, and the loom that spun it' etc - that is my take on crime.

Shot right through society is this undercurrent of doing wrong things privately and pretending we are not. Remember the Lord who looked after ethics snorting coke off a prostitute's breast and she quoted him as saying 'They give me £200 per day diems - what the hel else am I meant to spend it on??'

Right from the top and right through, people need to swim against the increasingly negative tide of this society we have all tolerated and created, and they do what they want. If it's good for the gander etc.

The Prophet also says, how shall we punish those whose spirit is already slayed? Modern life harms us and harms people from a young age, and then they go on to do wrong - and we blame solely them.

Where does the Govt of the last 14 yrs stand on it and what have they done? would be a better question. They claim to be the party of Law and Order.

I like this idea!

This approach would be more helpful than the current system. There is just no point in most shirt sentences. They do nothing. We need proper rehabilitation.

I want huge investment in rehabilitation programmes & upskilling of prisoners & addressing the myriad of MH and SEN issues they tend to have. From the moment of incarceration I want planning for how they can be released safely back into community.

I want "tough on the causes of crime"
I want drug use decriminalised.

Crime and punishment needs to be a mix of left and right policies to work.

You need strong policing first and foremost as a preventative measure.

As for drugs. The war on drugs and prohibition has been a disaster. Its just led to County lines, organised crime and drug wars.

You need strong sentencing but you also need educations in prisons to give people a chance when they come out.

But if you're weak on crime as a society then it's a disaster.

What country in the world is getting it right ?
Nations where the majority feel safe as the crime rate is low.
Then see how that happened and try and replicate it.

Apologies but I can't quote the individual - think it was a former prisons minister maybe - who said that if you ask people what should happen to criminals they want severe punishments. If you remind people that the majority of criminals will be released back into society one day and ask the question, 'What sort of people would you like these individuals to be?' That should inform how you treat them in prison.

Prison is great. It's a fantastic opportunity for vulnerable people to get really, really good at crime and acquire some nice addictions too, which will equip them perfectly for life on the outside.

We're never going to change that unless and until we invest in the kind of education and health services that pick children at risk up young, support them and their families and maximise their life chances. There's a reason why the prevalence of learning difficulties, mental ill health and histories of abuse and violence is so much higher (orders of magnitude) than in the general population.

We need to change what prison is for. There have to be consequences when someone commits a crime, but those consequences have to lead to that person becoming better. All we do now is make them worse.

Question is when did we start getting it wrong?

Tories are supposed to be the party of law and order but have been very soft on crime. Combine that with drug prohibition, cuts to police, prisons and metal health and it's a recipie for disaster. You lose on all fronts

My view is that if you are a danger to society then you should be imprisoned. Anything violent should be a prison sentence.

Anything non-violent, maybe this could be a fine/community service/something else?

I'm only really bothered about making sure dangerous people are kept away from innocent people.

I always think the idealistic liberal beliefs are brilliant in theory but people tend to drop them quickly when they experience crime first hand or a bail hostel opens up next door to them.

Well the starting point is crimes (and therefore criminals) are madey uppy. And the people who make them tend to do so to protect themselves, not us saps.

Also before we ponce about talking about "crime and punishment", unless we are studying Dostoevsky it would be nice to have some definitions.

For myself there are several components of punishment. Protection of society, restitution, rehabilitation and education. However I'm not grubbing for votes where soundbites are easier to sell and even easier to forget once in power.

Alternatively, we could follow the lead of Draco. I'm sure that would solve things.

I would like to see a complete redesign of the criminal punishment system. Incarcerating non-violent offenders seems counterintuitive for reducing recidivism.

instead I think we should have a program that combines community service with mental health and education. The service would direct people to the correct classes or services based upon their situation. Community service would ideally help the types of communities victimized by the crime, but from a practical perspective there would probably just need to be a menu of programs and people would be assigned based on openings and abilities.

this kind of program would not be a cheaper alternative to prisons. It would take significant funding to run well.

this kind of program would not be a cheaper alternative to prisons. It would take significant funding to run well.

But in the long run, less crime is a net boost to the economy. Unless your profession depends on their being criminals., of course ([police, insurance companies, etc). Then you have a really good incentive to invent more crimes to criminalise more of the population. That way they have to work for less.

I have no idea where I am on it.

Firstly I would like effective support given to people BEFORE they end up criminals. Social support, mental health care , physical health care , addiction support etc. Focus on preventing people ending up in that situation in the first place. If people end up in prison anyway, same support if changes can be made and rehabilitation work.

For serious crimes, proper sentencing and life should be life. Murder should always be life.
And a similar system to the 3 (or whatever number would be sensible here )strikesAmerican one , again for the more serious crimes.So repeat offenders of things like drug dealing, DV , rape , child abuse , aggravated assault etc end up getting life.
There should be some possibility of parole(with stringent regulations and conditions)unless we're talking about things like serial killers, rapists, repeat offenders of child sexual abuse etc.

I guess I'm a bit of both?

I would like to see much much better support for vulnerable children with MH struggles or SEN.

Neurodevelopmental disorders in prison inmates' study (2017) has found that 9% of prison inmates meet the criteria for autism, 25% meet the ADHD diagnostic, and 9% meet the screening criteria for learning

My son is autistic and there is no support for him. He does not even have a school place because his needs are too high for any underfunded under staffed school to manage. The 5 hours a week alternative provision he does get does absolutely no education with him and let him do whatever he likes as they are scared he will have one of his violent meltdowns. Essentially he's being taught to act as challenging as possible and he will get what he wants while also being denied any form of education. I am fucking terrified for his future. He just needs help managing his emotions before the bad habit of violence is set too deep.

Then we also need proper rehabilitation in the prisons. I like a pp idea of a two strike system.

If we had better public services for adults this could help. Wages people can live off so a life of crime isn't as appealing.

After a generation of all this then yes crack down hard on crime and have longer firmer prison sentences. It's just not fair to do this when the people commit img crime ofsted have been lead there by the life they were given and no one who helped when there was time to change their path

Not really sure but would support anything that has an evidence base of reducing recidivism.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3969807/

This is fascinating, it found that 1% of the population looked at was responsible for 63% of crimes. I wonder if it would be similar in the UK

This is fascinating, it found that 1% of the population looked at was responsible for 63% of crimes. I wonder if it would be similar in the UK

Anecdotally, when the police have been able to lock up 5 or 6 people in a town. the crime rate almost vanished overnight.

I am not a massive fan of severe penalties as a rule. However I believe that summary execution for littering, dog fouling and flytipping would bring overall crime down by 80% overnight. I shouldn't have to explain the logic.

This is going to sound awful but it does feel like some people are just compulsive about their behaviour and keeping them away from the rest of society for as long as possible is the best option. They don’t seem to be able to stop and society has to put up with it.

This is not an anti-immigration point but it puts me in mind of that afghan asylum seeker who committed multiple acts of indecency. The judge basically said they guy was unable to stop his behaviour so would be at high risk of severe punishment from the Taliban so he couldn’t be sent back. Tbh my view was that they would be welcome to him. I’m not sure being a pervert should guarantee a right to asylum. No time for sex offenders.

If someone can come up with a way to treat recidivists other than locking them up I’d be delighted.

I think there needs to be much, much better support for those in the criminal justice system. Jail should be minmised, but it's crazy that people are often made to leave at short notice, with no money, no access to benefits, no job, often no family to go to. No wonder reoffending is so high.

My family once help a friend who had a short spell in prison and although he was a fairly capable person, and one who had reasonable financial resources, it was clear that the whole process of getting back into life on the outside ideally needed: a stable home address; money in savings; good literacy skills for various forms; ability to be patient with bureaucracy; employable skills; emotional intelligence. In other words, things that a lot of people in the criminal justice system inherently lack because many have poor basic skills and/or learning difficulties, will be alienated from family and will be economically impoverished. Again, hardly surprising they reoffend.

Closed city - Wikipedia Basically these but split for those that dont have criminal records and those that do.

We could start by having law makers (i.e. politicians) accountable to the same standards as the rest of us. We ordinary folk can be jailed for lying about who was driving a speeding car; yet Johnson and Bliar can tell much bigger lies, with total impunity. (And let's not forget Johnson blatantly lied under oath to the Privileges Committee; I don't know why the Bible didn't burst into flames when he swore on it to tell the truth.) I will not believe in democracy until they are both in prison.