Where do you stand politically on crime and punishment?

[TERFCat]

I'm quite left wing, except on gender/ sex and crime and punishment.

When I was younger, I used to be very left wing on C&P. I wanted to abolish prisons, legalize drugs, and decriminalize sex work.

I'm 30s now and my life experience has made me quite right wing on C&P. I've seen far too many innocent hard-working people have their lives and businesses ruined by crime. Often, the criminals don't get punished and are free to do whatever they're doing again and again and again.

This week, we had that "dine and dash" couple finally jailed, but when you see how many times they'd committed the offense, it's mind-boggling that this is the first time they've been punished for it!

We also had that poor young watch dealer who killed himself after being robbed. The two men who did it probably won't get long in jail, ever as their victim and their family have a life sentence.

I want longer jail sentences and less tolerance for excuses.

I woulkd like to start with crime reduction.

Thinks like youth clubs, decent jobs that pay a wage that can support a family.

Looking at harm reduction for both legal and illegal drugs

Shutting down the school to prison pipeline

Treat being at risk of involvement in crime as a child protection issue

Then look at where we can take action to apply pressure at points that make offending more difficult, thinks like licensing certain business's that are either prone to or can facilitate crime.

Then there is enforcement, not only the Police but local authority functions eg Trading Standards and HMRC

Finally there is the issue of what we do with convicted offenders. I might suggest in addition to what has already been discussed that we need to look at the Dutch model where they are either given Intensive Community Rehabilitation OR detained in a Physiatric Hospital until they are safe for release

I’d really like C&P to be victim-centred. Because despite appearances, it’s not. So much focus goes on the perpetrator and the victim often finds out for example their rapist is out of prison through the grapevine and not official channels

I want drug use decriminalised.

@lljkk would that mean that anyone could buy drugs from a shop?

I agree that respect for the law forms a fundamental part of living in a civilised society. However it's a two way street.

Once you allow a sense to form that it's "one law for them" then you can pretty much kiss goodbye to any meaningfully coherent public response to crime. It's a very corrosive path to walk.

I've never really been one to blindly follow "the law" anyway. I was bought up to trust my conscience over anything a government tells me to do. And I still do. If more people did, then maybe we'd have a different society.

As another poster said - look at countries where the crime rate is lower, analyse why and see if it’s feasible in the UK.

Authoritarian regimes with capital/corporal punishment often have low crime rates. But you might not want a prison sentence for failing to clean up after your dog.

Generally countries with lower disparity between the wealthiest and poorest citizens, have lower crime rates. This often comes with fairer, more supportive social policies. And higher taxes. There is more ‘buy in’ from citizens, a recognition that if everyone does their bit, society will be better for all.
Easier to achieve in a country of 6 million people though (eg Denmark) than 60 million.

Harsher prison sentences will achieve nothing. It’s been tried - it doesn’t work.

As long as you have high levels of poverty, an education system that’s neither valued nor properly funded and unaffordable, inadequate housing (designed to benefit investors) - the crime rate and anti social behaviour will continue to rise. And it is rising.

As long as citizens re blaming each other (whether it’s migrants, single mothers, asbo youth - insert a stereotype) - it will continue to rise.

As another poster said - look at countries where the crime rate is lower, analyse why and see if it’s feasible in the UK.

Respectfully, I would say not.

Other countries are also other societies. You can bet you life their approach to C&P is woven into that. Part of the reason the UK is in the state is it in is because the really dim, lazy and greedy people thought they would extract billions from us for a solution and then graft on the cheapest example they found around the world.

This is a rare time I would say we need a local solution for local people.

Inequality between the extremes of society is a great driver of crime. But we don't want to fix that by becoming less unequal. We're like that person who wants the weight loss, but only if they can continue to run all you can eat buffets out of business.

Or that boss who wants a 10% increase in productivity to match his rival. Not by better pay and conditions like they have, but by putting a poster in the canteen .

Serendipity - I’d agree with you. Amassing personal wealth and profits for shareholders has become the ultimate goal, whatever the price.

Well, as long as we are happy for it to continue, then we are happy with the crime rate. Res ipsos loquitor. Or Quod erat demonstrandum.

I am too old and have used up all the hope I ever had. As far as I am concerned, we are hear because - as a massed society - it's where we want to be. And until we can show we don't we are probably better off shutting the fuck up and accepting our lot.

You can't look at it as just crime and punishment, it's a result of whole system and societal failures.
Look at somewhere like Norway, very permissive justice system, very liberal, rehabilitation and reintegration focused, very low reoffending rates. It works because embedded in their society is a community minded approach everyone does better together.
The US has a much harsher system, much higher reoffending rates but a very embedded every man and his dog for himself mindset.
Add in massive underfunding in social care, education, probation, mental health and we're on a hiding to nothing.