This isn't an average 8 year olds drawing is it??

[delilabell]

I'm bad at art always have been. But we are worried about dds development in several ways including fine motor skills.
Shes proudly just created this and I'm so chuffed for her but it's not average is it?

Dyspraxia can be diagnosed pretty much from 4 years old. I'd see if there is an occupational therapy centre or individual therapist near you who can help you with advice and also therapy. If it turns out she does have dyspraxia (or something else) then they can help you with the measures the school will need to put in place to help her. The right help, therapy and support can make the world of difference. Good luck!

I'd say don't worry is the best thing to do. Watch and wait, try not to obsess.

At that age, my daughter was a lot like yours - 'behind' in most areas, poor writing, numbers etc. She was described by school as a lovely child but very disorganised, never listened (a dolly daydreamer as one teacher kindly observed) and had trouble retaining information.

She's 14 now and in the top group for all her subjects. She excels in art and languages. Her parents evenings and quarterly reports are outstanding to the point of being embarrassing 😂 Anecdotal, but don't fret (you will 😂 I did!).

I agree this is something my 5 year old would draw, and she would draw 5 fingers. But then, I am shit at drawing, always was, always will be. During lockdown my company offered an activity which involved painting an elephant with a canvas and oil paints, mine looks like a kid did it. My drawing just hasn´t evolved past 7 years old.
It is the other characteristics, which looked at as the bigger picture, would warrant your advocating for her to be assessed.

Just to counter the autism thing, my 10yo and 8yo dc are autistic and fantastic at art, so I wouldn’t jump to any conclusions.

It might just be a case of everyone being different and drawing not being her thing! (Although they are cute pictures).

Maybe she's just not great at art? We all have different gifts. I'm rubbish at anything sciency but still got As for everything else.

💯

It sounds like you need to change schools.

Not at a primary level there isn’t.

this is primarily a home issue. Kids are being given screens not pens.

my drawing NEVER developed much beyond what your dd is doing - although I was always good at colouring. If her handwriting is broadly okay, I wouldn't be too concerned personally. Is she doing okay at school overall? Meeting expectations etc?

I'm sorry, I had missed your update. The art doesn't worry me, but of course you're concerned if she's behind. I will say that it's not unusual for children to only really come into their own around 8 or 9 so I can see why the school isn't that concerned.

She does have what sound like markers for dyspraxia. Does she have any other sensory processing issues you've noticed? Over/under-reacting to sound/touch/smell/taste?

Dyspraxia can be assessed by an occupational therapist. If you find one who ALSO offers therapy, this is helpful. DS has markers for dyspraxia but doesn't meet the threshold. At a similar age to your DD, he did 16 weeks of 1-2-1 OT sessions which helped him a great deal. I have often thought I'd like to continue those but finding an OT locally who does this sort of treatment is hard and prohibitively expensive.

search Goodeneough-Harris draw a person test, get her to draw a person at her best ability and take as long as she needs, there’s marking scales online of how many features etc are or aren’t included and this may give you an indicator

I was really really lousy at art, something along the lines of your DD I'd say, but ended up being intelligent otherwise. 8 A* at GCSE and 3 A's at A level. Not saying that to boast, but just to communicate that not everyone can draw beyond stick men and be otherwise intelligent.

Absolute rubbish that autism won't show until Year 5! I know several kids being diagnosed much younger. Mostly boys.

I think you really need to keep pushing as hard as you can. There are three and a half year waiting lists in this part of the country.

I'm a primary school teacher.

I'd expect most 8yos "best effort" drawings to be quite a bit better than that one. If I'd had to guess, I'd have put that more at the level of a keen/quite able 6yo.

It sounds like your DD may be neurodiverse. I would suggest you have her accessed for DCD (formally known as dyspraxia, can affect working memory as well as motor skills),ADHD (fidgeting and poor focus) and dyslexia (Dyslexics are poor at spelling but can be good at reading). It's very common for children who are neurodiverse to have more than one disorder. If the school isn't helping, go to your GP.

Hi OP. At this age I do think we are inclined to worry what normal is. My DS was always terrible at art. I still have a delightful picture of me in my dressing gown he did at 9 where I could easily have been mistaken for a worm. He is now a Doctor and his art is now quite good.

What I can't understand is if she has all these fine motor skills problems why is her writing neater than a child her age that is very puzzling indeed.

I was late reader then became speed reader

i was crap at spelling. I see shape of words not individual letters and vowels and letters like c just run into each other. Never could learn spelling by learning to write out. Even now aged60 spelling is crap.

I could never learn timetables. Still can’t.

i have joint degree in chemistry and maths. Love reading. Had a successful career allowing me to retire at 55. Now spending time on textile art, and socialising.

these expectations on kids arent always helpful. We all learn in different ways. We all reach different milestones. Some people are just crap or uninterested in replication of visual image onto paper.

someone very wise said as parents we are “ shepherds” , our job to guide and encourage and make new pastures safe. Coach her, encourage her but accept we’re all different

if she starts to fall behind on other milestones then talk to health visitor or school. But being crap at learning spelling or time tables is NOT a sign of a problem in her development . It’s irritating for her, her teachers and anyone trying to read her work- but she needs to be encouraged to find ways to manage that which schools don’t tend to even want to think about.

@delilabell
To add to my earlier post, my DS was also later diagnosed with ASD but I didn’t want to muddy the water by mentioning it. Dyspraxia diagnosis however explained some, not all of his issues and meant we were in the system for testing around other ND conditions.

I would definitely read up more if you haven’t already on dyspraxia and as someone said earlier, it’s a spectrum so your DD might not tick every symptom but from what you’ve said, she ticks a lot.

My eldest DC has ASD and is brilliant at art btw.

I replied on this thread because I recognise some of what you are describing and spent ages ignoring my gut instincts, being passed between school and GP when I did raise it. Looking back, all the bits of the puzzle where there and given how long it takes to get a diagnosis, I wish I’d acted sooner and been more insistent on an earlier referral. It would have benefited my DS’s self esteem.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2728381/How-child-s-drawings-four-clue-cleverness-Young-depict-human-form-artworks-likely-brighter-teenage-years.html

I think this is very true and sometimes it’s a bit sad that children now are not just enjoyed for where they are at. It’s great that many of these diagnoses can be identified when it really is needed; but I do feel the kind of “armchair educational psychology” that has snuck into society keeps parents hugely on edge when in fact maybe it’s just a cute picture by an eight year old who isn’t - or isn’t yet- that great at art. When I was young, children were enjoyed for being just that: young and childish. The shortcomings and naive attempts were seen as cute and something to treasure - like mum the worm in her dressing gown!

I think you are right to raise it oP - but you have now. Maybe could you pay privately for an assessment so you can put it out of your mind and know you have done what you can if you really feel the school etc are missing something concerning?

It’s a cute picture because it isn’t massively accomplished. Children who can draw and play instruments and spell etc like adults are impressive; but there is also something very adorable about little caterpillars that aren’t yet out of the crysalis. Keep an eye on it but try not to let anxiety steal your joy.

Jeez you’re an expert on medicalising based on a crap drawing, crap spelling and a can’t be arsed attitude to holdingvtimetsble junk in her working memory

youd have fun with me then.

aged 60.

joint degree in maths andcchemistry

hey ho..seems like that’s all MN can deal with when I child is developing in different ways - they have to be “neurodiverse” and get a bloody label and intervention etc.

or, we can all accept kids develop and learn, just like adults, in different ways. Are brains use different tactics as working memory. What we need to do is focus on teaching and equipping kids with the strategies and tools to play to their strengths and mitigate their weakness. Not give them a bloody label

yes, there are many children with these conditions. Yes many go under diagnosed. But too many on MN jump in too readily with neurodivergent armchair diagnosis. What’s being described is not massively unusual fgs.

Looks like my 9 year olds drawing! And he is the top of his class in every other subject......but, I do know from working in a primary school that most teachers don't do many art lessons. It's all very rushed and you'll be lucky if they ever paint or do messy crafts once a fortnight.
Noone is actually teaching your kid about art at school and if you're not teaching them at home then they won't know.
I'd also say its nothing to worry about. Your kid doesn't have to be good at everything.

I meet quite a lot of dyspraxia criteria (I have been refused an assessment because of the chance that my struggles could be due to something else I had as a child) and my art ability is pretty much that, while my hand writing has been great since the age of 4…

That's what my DDs drawing looked like age 8. She just wasn't a natural artist- still isn't at 18- can't draw for the life of her! Some kids are just like that- they're all people at the end of the day. Her writing was as good as that too since she's naturally good at writing and English- still is now age 18. Kids are so individual and have certain strengths and weaknesses just as adults do. Unless you have other reasons to be concerned about her motor skills she probably just can't draw! And that's fine.