Why are 999 call handlers like this?

[NotADailyMailJournalist]

Hello

I came across a man collapsed and bleeding heavily from a head wound in the street today. Literally a thick puddle of blood. I slammed a folded, fabric shopping bag on the wound to stem the bleeding.

Me: Hello, I've found a collapsed male, conscious but with heavy bleeding
Call Handler: what age is he? Do you know his name? Did you see him fall?
Me: 60-ish maybe, not sure on name, Davie he says, maybe, no I didn't see it happen. Is the ambulance on its way?
Call Handler: YOU NEED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, LISTEN TO ME! Further questions about when did this happen etc etc.
Me: he's very distressed, can I tell him the ambulance is coming?
Call Handler: FINALLY says ambulance is on way.

Speaking to friends, they say this is common. Why can't the call handler just say "it's ok, ambulance is on way, answer these questions in the meantime"?

Thanks

Had something similar, person was very obviously dead and they asked if I was prepared to be talked through CPR. I said no and they asked if I would find someone who was prepared to try, as though I just didn't care enough. It was traumatic enough as an 18 year old without that.

I was also asked to do CPR on someone who was literally cold and stiff. It was awful. I get that they have to ask in case they arent dead but rigor mortis had already set in and so I refused, it couldn't have been more obvious that they were dead. They got really angry at me about that.

Police call handler here. One of my calls was played on a police programme, and they only played the start when the caller was saying what was happening then cut the part when I was asking him all the questions amd went straight to the part where I was telling him police were on the way - so it might have been a bit misleading!
We aren't scripted but still have to get a lot of information to assess the situation before we can send police, and sometimes have to be a bit short with people to get the basic information needed to assess quickly.

Ambulance are scripted though, and if you go off script I think it will just delay things longer. I have to ring them a lot at work on behalf of colleagues and they still go through questions I can't answer as I'm not with the patient- but just "I don't know" is enough for them to get through it.

But they're not there. They can't see him. They're on the end of the phone. And they have to ensure that they've asked and done everything.

Imagine if that person was your family member. If the person with them, quite reasonably, felt unable to do CPR, you'd want the call handler to encourage them to find someone else, wouldn't you? If they'd not done so because they'd prioritised the emotions of the person finding them, you'd be furious.

And already on this thread a poster has said that she'd been absolutely certain that someone was dead, but they turned out not to be.

I'm shocked at the lack of logic and empathy from many on this thread.
I can't imagine how difficult a job it is. The responsibility is massive, and simply talking people through CPR by phone (maybe several times a day) must be so stressful I can't imagine. As will dealing with the understandable panic and stress in the caller's voice. I couldn't do it. And I'm surprised that so few appreciate their life saving work.

I had similar. Had concerns about my parent and could not access their flat. Called 999, told them I thought he might be dead but I was locked outside his property and couldn’t see in. She asked if he was breathing. I replied that I had no idea, he was inside a locked building. She asked again if he was breathing. Again told her why I didn’t know. She then said I needed to answer the question and asked again is he breathing. At which point I just broke down and said no, despite still having no idea. Turns out I was right anyway. I kind of figured it was just one of those things she had to do

I had one bad experience where I waited 13 minutes for the 999 call to be answered.

Another time after someone had weirdly dropped unconscious in the middle of a conversation with me, they kept asking questions I couldn’t answer as the hotel staff had moved her into a room with no phone reception, and I got locked out of it for a while, after going in and out multiple times for 15 minutes I realised they hadn’t even asked for the address.

It’s unacceptable that they can’t interpret what people are saying in their own words, to answer their questions. It’s not quite as bad as 111 but that kind of idea.

Wonder what proportion is to allow for ass-covering (“but we asked you whether there was a camel sitting on the patient and you said no”)

They can’t just send staff without establishing what they are going to be walking into. A man was injured, so is the perpetrator still around? Will the crew be at risk if dispatched? Was it caused by a car crash? Do we need police to attend? You can’t just call for an ambulance and they press a button to dispatch. If a crew arrives in scene with no info it will waste more time long run, need to establish the facts first.

Imagine if that person was your family member. If the person with them, quite reasonably, felt unable to do CPR, you'd want the call handler to encourage them to find someone else, wouldn't you?

No. That person was my sibling. I wouldn't want anyone to feel pressured into CPR on an obviously dead body. If you've ever seen livor mortis you'd be under no illusions as to whether someone was dead or not. I'd already explained their appearance to the call handler.

My DH in in charge of 999 call handlers. There are 2 people on every desk. Whilst the one you are talking to is asking you questions, the other one will be taking the action needed, such as calling an ambulance. It's such a stressful job. My DH has 6 screens and 2 peddles. He often doesn't get a break to eat or pee. I do agree though, that they should say an ambulance is en route, if one is. The biggest problem, is that there are so many time wasters that call in, about the most ridiculous things. There are also a lot of people who lie! Just yesterday someone called to say that they had been forcefully ejected from a cab, in the middle of the road. DH could see them on CCTV, and that's not what happened at all! They have to ask certain questions to get to the nub of the problem. Very often what the caller says, is actually not what's happening at all. For example, they have hoards of old people ring up saying there's someone in their house, when there most definitely isn't!

Worst I heard was the Josh Powell case. 911 not 999 but still unbelievable. Social worker on supervised visit reported he’d shut her out. She could smell gasoline, he was suspected of murdering their mother, and in the end he did blow up the house with them all in it. 911 guy basically stonewalled her for 8 minutes and said it wasn’t an emergency. He got reprimanded. He admitted he assumed it was a pissed off mother in a custody battle. I wonder how men fare when they call emergency services versus women in general…

This. They're not a customer service organisation, they have critical decisions to make.

Call handlers for the emergency services rarely have any empathy. They’re much like the police in that regard, I’d as much have an emergency handler in my life as I would a police officer.

No. That person was my sibling. I wouldn't want anyone to feel pressured into CPR on an obviously dead body. If you've ever seen livor mortis you'd be under no illusions as to whether someone was dead or not. I'd already explained their appearance to the call handler

I agree, a stranger is not obliged to do CPR- not everyone even knows how to do it. I know someone who attempted CPR on someone who was already dead and ended up breaking their ribs because they were in rigorous mortis and so stiff and the family were angry that they tried because their chest caved in. Obviously people should try CPR when and if they can but the rate of success with CPR is incredibly low. We all think it is high due to tv programmes like casualty. I am not saying that means people shouldn't try but it's not the responsibility of strangers to revive people. If they can, great, but noone should be "angry" that they didnt try. Their first responsibility is to get medical assistance for the person

The ambulance can still be dispatched before the questions are finished but yes they need to know to prioritise (and dispatch the CORRECT response - which may include air ambulance)

I get it's frustrating (BTW if a health professional rings we still have to do that list too - we've had to start encorporating practise calls in as we used to be exactly the same)

Also with regards to age/name it doesnt have to be exact or correct. Saying you don't know or Fred when he's actually Alfred is fine. Saying mid 30s/elderly/born 1984 is fine, saying 27 when it turns out that it's a youthful looking 41 year old is fine - all they need is an estimate so the paramedics can know what they are turning up to because while they are driving to an event the second person has up the algorithms and drug sheets for that category to refresh them both - because paediatric and adult calculations are different, male and female anatomies are different and can affect care

I dont think I could check a body to see if it was warm or cold, I'm really squeamish. That would haunt the rest of my life.
The rest I'm ok with, answering questions and stuff.

It's not a Royal Garden party its an emergency service. They need clear concise information not someone garbling unintelligible on the phone. No matter how difficult the job or how hard the emergency staff try to be compassionate and professional while dealing with often distressing and heart breaking incidents, there is always SOMEONE who will complain.
Just answer the bloody questions FFS

From recollection both times my son had anaphylaxis and I rang they assured me from the start an ambulance was on the way, talked me through his care and then focussed on other details. I remember feeling really supported

Just answer the bloody questions FFS

People ARE answering the questions! what's the point in asking about a complete strangers medical history when you dont know them?- asking three more times isnt going to magic up the answer is it? its just wasting time

I think if someone has fallen into a coma they ought to send an ambulance pretty bloody sharpish anyway.

Because call handlers don't dispatch. And there may be higher priority calls, meaning that there will be a delay.

I guess they are doing a very stressful job so they have to cut through people getting hysterical/giving unwanted information etc but I do know what you mean.
two incidents. one morning we were loading up our van for a car boot and this lady came rushing over to us; didn't know her she came from bungalows over other side to us. turns out the 98year old lady by her had been taken ill so we went over rang for ambulance as suspected it turned out to be a UTI but the operator insisted on asking lots of questions and despite me explaining I didn't even know the lady's name. As she was profoundly deaf and didn't know me it was very embarrasing asking her about bowel movements if she had urine problems!
second was waiting for a bus intoxicated man staggering along fell off pavement smashed head open. i rang ambulance etc explained I was just a passer by trying to help but she kept insisting of asking same questions name age etc i had no chance of asking him he was blotto in the end I just had to say sorry about to miss my bus please send ambulance and hang up

It will have been a shock for you. You did well to help him/get him help.

the callers have to be unmoved- they need their information and they need it quickly. They will have multiple calls coming in and need to get to the next call asap. The best we can do is help them with the information, then they can prioritise what’s needed, whether it’s ambulance, bike, plus police etc etc. they can’t simply take the word of a shocked member of public (not saying it’s you) shouting about blood and ambulances before they so.

Which is fine except that people are telling you they are less likely to interact with you at all.
And people really really don’t like having to repeat the same information multiple times. So If I say “unknown man looks like in his sixties bleeding profusely from head wound” you will always get people’s backs up if you ask what age he is.

Similarly, if I say “unknown unconscious male” don’t ask me if he can say his name or whether he takes regular medication, because I will think you and your script are idiots.
Listen to all the information that is being given.

Yes you are right - but that person will take priority over the one who is already dead and is past saving (for example rigor mortis has set in)

Presumably they’re obliged to stick to the script - same as 111 call handlers.