Why are 999 call handlers like this?

[NotADailyMailJournalist]

Hello

I came across a man collapsed and bleeding heavily from a head wound in the street today. Literally a thick puddle of blood. I slammed a folded, fabric shopping bag on the wound to stem the bleeding.

Me: Hello, I've found a collapsed male, conscious but with heavy bleeding
Call Handler: what age is he? Do you know his name? Did you see him fall?
Me: 60-ish maybe, not sure on name, Davie he says, maybe, no I didn't see it happen. Is the ambulance on its way?
Call Handler: YOU NEED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, LISTEN TO ME! Further questions about when did this happen etc etc.
Me: he's very distressed, can I tell him the ambulance is coming?
Call Handler: FINALLY says ambulance is on way.

Speaking to friends, they say this is common. Why can't the call handler just say "it's ok, ambulance is on way, answer these questions in the meantime"?

Thanks

In fact I forgot this one: you’d be surprised how many people just hang up as soon as they’re told someone is on the way! So they may choose to be evasive until they have all the info they need.

To be picky about your examples - if someone has been shot or stabbed they absolutely will not just send an ambulance, because they won’t attend until they know it’s safe to do so. So they need to ask more questions, and probably they need to ask police to attend first. There’s a lot happening that the caller has no idea of.

I just want them to say "help is on the way". Then I can reassure the person and concentrate on stemming the bleeding whilst answering more detailed questions calmly.

They can't say that unfortunately because it might not be
If there isn't an ambulance available then help isn't on the way but they should have said they aren't delaying it with the questions
The dispatchers are separate, they're seeing the calls come in and allocating to jobs

I'm curious how you define heavy bleeding and a "pool of blood". It's not really super useful information actually, useful but not super useful. Hence the questions.

Why would they tell you help is on the way at the start of a call? Their job is to get relevant information so colleagues can assess what response is appropriate. You're also weirdly upset over the call, I hope you've someone you can talk to irl.

I suspect so they can assess appropriate priority.

I had the misfortune of needing to call about 6 months ago. Between calling and them picking up all hell broke loose at my end. By the time I was able to pick up the phone again
I was terrified the call would have been terminated (I hadn't had the opportunity to say which service I needed). Credit to them they didn't and without that call handler my husband wouldn't have been brought back (heart stopped due to "electrical" issue) - she somehow "calmed" me enough to quickly explain and give our address before talking me through getting my husband off the bed (release sheets and drag him off) to do cpr long enough for paramedics to arrive (she stayed on the call and talked me through until she confirmed the ambulance was outside and that I should run to answer the door). Without her help my husband wouldn't have been brought back or made it to hospital.

I imagine they hear so much and they need to be calm/blunt to deal with people/keep them calm in that situation.

Unfortunately you are being very unrealistic, call handlers and dispatch staff should not be expected to lie to you

They're not aggressive, they're under pressure to get as much information as they can, as quickly as they can to ensure the right help is sent to the most needy people. You asking questions and interrupting their process doesn't help. They can't tell you help is on the way because it might not be. You might be 6th on the list. There aren't enough ambulances.

Thanks to those who have been helpful.

Not so much to those who think I am "weirdly upset" about finding a man in a pool of blood and having to beg for help from an apparently unmoved 999 call handler. Whilst trying to stem the bleeding with a shopping bag and my bare hands.

They have to be 'unmoved' whilst on the phone because they have a job to do. They also take hundreds of calls in a shift and can't let it affect them or their mental health would be in tatters and then there would be nobody to take your call.

@RicherThanYews
I am a 111 handler. If we get calls about a death we still have to ask if they are still breathing (I hate asking this). If they are still breathing then you will need to give cpr unless they have a dnr in place. We have to ask if it is an expected or unexpected death. If you've discovered a dead body, is the body cold or warm etc ?

Are you ok? Sounds like this has really affected you, I hope you have support to help you process what you saw.

Algorithms man. Seem to have to follow those instead of extrapolating the answers from information you give. From TV it really seems to antagonise people in an already distressed or disordered state.

The thing is if you say that you'd be surprised how many people will then just hang up. Oh goodie, ambulance on the way, job done.

9/10 the process of sending out first response is already happening from the minute they have a location. They don't tell people this because they need as much info as possible. The reason they're asking the questions is to first determine where on the priority list the casualty needs to be, and second to keep the caller on the line to provide immediate assistance and updates to help with triage. If the questions seem insane and pointless, that's why. Help is already incoming, they just don't want you to hang up because they can still potentially get vital information from you to pass on to the responders that are already on the way (or potentially bump you up or down the queue)

The emergency services are strained beyond belief, there is always a priority list, the call handlers job is to determine where on that list a casualty should be. If they make the wrong call someone might die, so of course they're abrupt. Their priority in that moment is the casualty, not your peace of mind. I can assure you they're not "unmoved". I know two who have attempted suicide. It's a fucking horrible job.

@Gollumm thanks. Yes I'm ok. It was a real shock though. I have never seen so much blood, I had to go home and wash my hands arms and jacket. It even splashed into my face although thankfully not in my eyes which would have been a health risk possibly? He was so distressed saying he was dying, every minute I waited felt like an hour. I felt so helpless and alone with this guy. I'll feel better once I can get a bit of sleep tonight. Just still a bit fuelled on adrenaline.

Hope you get some sleep OP. You may well feel worse tomorrow when your adrenaline drops. That’s normal. Talk to someone who cares about you about it. In the unlikely event that you’re still distressed about it in a few weeks, talk to your GP. You did a very good thing, you should be proud of yourself.

@LetsGoRoundTheRoundabout thanks. I would have hoped to have been better in a crisis. I'm quite shocked at what a flap I got into. I was really good in First Aid class a couple of years ago. Just goes to show it's different in real life, when you're not expecting it. But I have emailed the Red Cross now and said I think they should do practice 999 calls so we are not surprised with the manner of the call handler and the type of questions.

Also it's really tiring putting pressure on a wound for 10 mins. It's a long time!

I'm also shocked at the number of people who just walked past before I reached the guy. Walked ROUND a puddle of blood oozing over the pavement. And no-one else stopped to help me either. I mean ok don't get blood on your hands like I did if you don't want to but call an ambulance!

I called 999 a long time ago - about 20 years. I was driving down the M1 and had to swerve very sharply into another lane (which, thankfully, was just about clear), as there was a huge stone block in the middle of the middle lane. I presume it had either fallen from the back of a building supplies lorry or been dropped from a bridge by a dangerous idiot. Going on the size of it, any car or van not seeing it or being forced into it (if neither lane either side clear) would have unquestionably ended in very serious consequences indeed.

I was on my own and didn't have a mobile phone with me - nowhere safe to stop to call, even if I had - and I wasn't too far from my destination, so I carefully remembered where I was (between which junctions), got there and then instantly picked up the phone and called 999.

I had always been led to believe that they preferred the risk of multiple people calling about the same thing rather than nobody call. I gave the woman who answered the information and she couldn't have sounded more like she thought I was really wasting her time if she'd tried. She didn't ask me any further questions, once I'd told her what and where, but she made me feel like a naughty child making a prank call and said in a very bored/annoyed tone "I'll alert Leicestershire Police" and then hung up.

I realise that they have to be quick and to the point, so that they can expertly assess the situation - and I didn't expect to be thanked; even a "Yes, we're aware" before immediately ending the call would have been great (although, from how she responded, they weren't aware) - but the clear message that I took from that was that I shouldn't have bothered her with such nonsense. I could only conclude that they preferred to be called out to a serious accident/pile-up/vehicle fire/death after the event than be told in advance, so that they could properly warn people, close off the lane and try to prevent it; which is completely mad, surely?

It's part of the prioritisation. Ambulances have to be sent to the most severe cases first.

Three years ago my brother was triaged as a category one (the most urgent) because he became unresponsive on the phone to 111. Unfortunately by the time help came, they could see he was gravely ill and had to break into his home to get to him. Shortly after he went into cardiac arrest and they tried CPR but were unable to save him.

Because they got to him so fast due to being a cat one, they managed to do the knocking on doors to see if anyone heard anything, find a stick to wedge open the letter box and shout to him and so on. And then they made the decision to break in. Without that time being available, my brother might well have died alone. But because of the response time there were people with him when he died. He was only 31. And they had a bloody good go at saving him because of the time they had too. He died of Sudden Arrhythmic Death Syndrome (SADS).

I guess also what I am trying to say is that not everyone can answer the questions, but sometimes things like heavy bleeding don't always make for the most urgent call outs. A GP I know last weekend said head wounds bleed terribly but usually most are not actually that severe.

It sounds like a really scary experience and I am sorry you had to go through it. Well done for helping the man, lots of people may not have known what to do or felt able to help as you did. In times like these I think we have to roll with it and trust the professionals, they do it every day and will be used to dealing with people who are traumatised/in shock and who may struggle to communicate.

@SirAlfredSpatchcock I had the exact same experience fairly recently; a massive box in the middle lane of the M25; it looked like one of those wardrobe boxes you get when you move house. My husband was driving so I was trying to ring; I couldn’t get through to highways England or 101 so I rang 999. I genuinely thought it would cause a massive pile up if it didn’t get sorted, but the person on the phone was so rude. I think they thought I was reporting a little box and they more or less hung up on me. I ended up just putting it on Waze. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sorry this happened to you

I had the same response from a call handler when I called to say I’d found my father dead.

And was equally horrified at their response, but the responder did finally manage to persuade me to move him and he was, quite miraculously, still alive. Only just. He’d been there almost 5 days we later worked out. Because he was, only just, alive, the ambulance was then there in minutes.

I don't want to be horrible or dismissive, but a panic attack is much lower down on the emergency scale than eg baby/child who was strangled, lost oxygen to brain, minutes to get them to hospital. They do need that info to prioritise scarce emergency resources, especially when public services are strapped.

I'm ND myself and totally get the struggle. I do agree that she should have been better trained because panicking you served no purpose in terms of getting the info. Also, in an ideal world, they'd be able to dispatch full teams and the fastest ambulance to each case, but unfortunately those aren't the times we live in.

Just because they hadn't told you that an ambulance had been dispatched doesn't mean that it hadn't been.
As soon as they have a location the process begins. There is a basic level of information required and then it all starts running. But they won't necessarily say when the dispatch request is done they will keep asking questions because it is so important for the crew to have as much information as possible.

Also bear in mind the person on the phone is not the dispatcher. There will be other people on the room not on the phone who make the decisions guided by the systems.

There is a script (in fact they can be disciplined for not following it) with a huge amount of evidence behind it. Your definition of “lying in a pool of blood” is completely different from someone else. They need to ask some specific questions for logistical reasons, to try and get some identifiers and to check what grade of paramedic and how fast to send them.

That will take less than 30 seconds to establish if they do need an ambulance which your answers will help with hugely. They also may be sending an ambulance once certain triggers are reached but more information will help the crew on the way or help add more crews so don’t want you off the line. They may also provide medical advice while you wait and you may give more information as you go that may change that response speed or priority.

Even “stabbing” can be anything from dead, critically ill to someone who has cut their hand- people use very different language and they have no idea who you are

Having listened to the call taker end many many times I can imagine it’s very frustrating at times but some people are REALLY unhelpful on the phone too and without sticking to the script they can get drawn off track very fast

Oh and I think your suggestion to Red Cross is excellent btw!

i have just read all these responses with great interest. Unfortunately I have quite a bit of experience calling ambulances, and from my understanding quite simply they cannot say an ambulance is on it way as there simply are not enough. I had a plumber working at my home who had a stroke, there were no ambulances. I had to put him in my car. My daughter broke her neck, obviously they did not know that at the time, that was a 6 hour wait. It’ not unusual to have a wait of an hour plus, so if they did say an ambulance was on its way they would not be telling you the truth. A few times I could hear the distress in the call handler as there were no ambulances available, or the nearest one was in the next county.