Why are 999 call handlers like this?

[NotADailyMailJournalist]

Hello

I came across a man collapsed and bleeding heavily from a head wound in the street today. Literally a thick puddle of blood. I slammed a folded, fabric shopping bag on the wound to stem the bleeding.

Me: Hello, I've found a collapsed male, conscious but with heavy bleeding
Call Handler: what age is he? Do you know his name? Did you see him fall?
Me: 60-ish maybe, not sure on name, Davie he says, maybe, no I didn't see it happen. Is the ambulance on its way?
Call Handler: YOU NEED TO ANSWER THE QUESTIONS, LISTEN TO ME! Further questions about when did this happen etc etc.
Me: he's very distressed, can I tell him the ambulance is coming?
Call Handler: FINALLY says ambulance is on way.

Speaking to friends, they say this is common. Why can't the call handler just say "it's ok, ambulance is on way, answer these questions in the meantime"?

Thanks

I don’t think they thought it was foul play - they never contacted her again. It was just ignorant heavy handedness. She was extremely traumatised and will never again see the police as a force for good. To my mind putting her out on the streets in Southwark at 3am traumatised and without any clue whether she had the means to even pay for an Uber was utterly negligent and she could have been their next statistic.

I agree with you. Whilst you would hope people would wait to answer any questions that they can answer that might help, as a random passer-by, what can you really do? If you were a trained paramedic, with access to all your kit, you wouldn't have called them in the first place, would you?

Generally, once you've done your 'member of the public' bit, professionals usually want to be left to get on with their job; they don't want you dancing around on the scene, getting flustered, when you have no knowledge or ability to help at all.

I also think that a lot of people nowadays would be worried that they might be wrongly blamed for/suspected of something and could potentially end up in a Kafkaesque nightmare of having to prove that they weren't responsible for the actions that led to the emergency.

I get that people probably DO often call and say "I saw somebody attack her" when it was actually them, just hoping to take her handbag and run off, without expecting her to tumble and smash her head on the ground in the process - but when YOU know that you were 100% innocent and uninvolved, you wouldn't want to end up having to justify that. Plenty of innocent people do fear the police these days, and not without reason.

I had a horrible experience recently when I called 999 after seeing a pedestrian get hit by a car in the lane next to me. I was in an unfamiliar location and had no idea of the street name I was on.

DD looked up the location on What3Words and I gave that to the 999 operator. I thought the emergency services encouraged you to use it for the exact location. It seemed to make no difference. She kept asking me if I could see any landmarks and what buildings were near by. I was running up and down the road telling her and she was asking for more and more information about the location. Even when I told her the police were on scene and I could see the ambulance arriving she was asking me questions which seemed irrelevant. I was on the phone for over ten minutes and felt like I was blocking the line for other callers.

They're just doing their job. No need to be on here having a go at someone who does a very difficult job.

@Annielou67 That's horrendous - your poor daughter.

There's nothing wrong with an algorithm or a script.

They're is a huge amount won't with an algorithm or script that doesn't let you move on without inputting an answer, which means the caller and call handler are stuck.

The system should be intelligent enough to enable handlers to tick a 'stranger' box which then bypasses questions on their medical history, or an 'other' box where the answer doesn't neatly fit into a yes/no for example.

There's a huge difference in allowing a handler to go completely off script and enabling them to use their common sense that sometimes real life can't follow a script, and giving the options on the algorithm to act accordingly.

Take that poor guy stuck in the machine - clearly algorithm says 'shut it down' and wouldn't let the handler move on until that box was ticked, even though that would have made it 10x worse. A system that can't account for 'no because' isn't fit for purpose.

Frankly, if they are bound fully by 'computer says' then we may as well have it fully automated.

"Ask questions that might not seem relevant. But they are."

Can you please explain the relevance of insisting on the name and medical history of an unknown unconscious person please? Along with why its right that you cant move on until someone gives that (impossible to know) information?

That's very interesting. So what's the point in mapping the whole globe with the W3W system and publicising how effectively it can save lives, if the people you assume would find it most useful are just asking if you can see a pillar box or a traffic light or something?

I know it's a fast-paced environment, but surely the call-handlers must be able to spot some signs of the competence of the caller? They know how to respond appropriately if they answer to a very young child's voice softly saying "Mummy is poorly" - asking very basic questions and working with the kid's limited communication skills - so if somebody has the presence of mind to tell them concisely and clearly what has happened and give the W3W reference, why would they assume they must be utterly stupid?

@Notsonifty50 I still quite get the What3Words thing. How do you know what the words are. Is it an app that finds where you are via satallites? Because if your phone can do that why can't it just give the map coordinates (which I assume are on the emergency services system)?
I don't get the point.

Frankly, if they are bound fully by 'computer says' then we may as well have it fully automated.

Quite. If they go from the expectation that anybody who calls 999 is going to be stupid, lying, incompetent, unable to report what they see clearly with their own eyes, a timewaster, a hoaxer etc., then why bother having the system in the first place?

I wouldn't want to remotely rely on the W3W reference, I've seen it cause confusion or misdirection (people mishearing /mispronouncing words etc). It's ok as an adjunct but normal information is key.

I suppose the thinking is that there's less scope for mistakes at either end if, instead of having to read out (and note) "512432568795, 821455769570", you can say "Robot Sofa Happy".

@SirAlfredSpatchcock I suppose that makes sense 🤔

But surely it works at least reasonably well a lot of the time? You wouldn't instantly dismiss it as utterly useless?

I heard a feature on the radio about it some time back, and Mongolia uses the system officially in place of postcodes!

@Arraminta

There are plenty call handlers with degrees where I work, one is even doing a PhD.

"Why can't the call handler just say "it's ok, ambulance is on way, answer these questions in the meantime"?"

Because, as has been said many times, people then just hang up because they've done their "good deed" and can feel all virtuous without spending any more time on the matter. There was a poster up thread who did actually say "in the end I just had to say sorry about to miss my bus please send ambulance and hang up" - prioritising catching a bus over finishing the call to 999!

I've had to call 999 ambulances a number of times for various reasons, and I've never had any problems with how the call was handled. Reasons (among others) ranging from my own father (terminally ill with cancer) falling in the garden onto steps and bleeding heavily, through an elderly lady in the street who tripped & fell over a curb & hit her head very hard, to an unconscious man on a bench in the street. For my father, many years ago before the various health service issues, ambulance came within half an hour. Elderly lady, the call handlers questions allowed it to be determined that she wouldn't need an ambulance as her friends who came along said they would take her to the local cottage hospital for a check up if she wasn't improving in a couple of hours.

The guy in the street was actually in a diabetic coma and would have died without assistance within another hour or so. But I had community police there in 5 mins, a bike paramedic in 10 and an ambulance in 15. This was mid covid crisis as well, during the 2nd lock down.

Each time the call handlers were very much to the point, following a script that meant they couldn't miss asking important questions e.g. in all 3 cases whether the person had been drinking to my knowledge or if I could smell alcohol on them, what attempts had been made to rouse the unconscious man etc.

I've also been on the other side of the phone for non-critical calls but often from distressed people, and sometimes abusive. We do need to ask certain information like full name with correct spelling to find them on the system, then they can get angry we aren't giving them what they want right that second. We also get people stressed out and not listening to what I am saying, or misinterpreting it to fit their own agenda e.g. I'll say "I'll contact your allocated worker and she/he will be able to discuss this further" being interpreted as me saying "of course you can have that", or "no chance matey".

The common criticism from my boss is that when I'm on calls I tend to spend a bit too much time empathising etc rather than just getting the message to the right person, yet I had a complaint about me being rude and talking down to this caller because she only listened to half a sentence & then tuned out.

A better system would be an emergency services app like there is in my country. You call from the app and it transmits your coordinates directly to the call handler's screen. No risk of mistakes and even if you for some reason hang up immediately (phone runs out of battery for instance) they know where you are and can dispatch.

The ignorance of some of the posters on this thread is shocking. Many posters, myself included, have explained the process and the rationale behind "asking stupid questions" and yet, people still can't/wont comprehend the reasons for them.

The thing I find infuriating is if you haven't got information and you tell them that they repeat the question. Eg what your address. Ivecsaid I have absolutely no idea, I'm on a fell but I can give you ,What3Words. I've been told, sorry madame I need an address. This will go on several times.
Again What has happened to the casualty? I don't know, he has a head injury on his right temple it is bleeding. Hecan't tell me what's happened and no one else is around. I am then asked the question again.
I've also been asked what is the casualty's address. When I've said I have no idea I have never seen him before this phone call and he can't tell me I have been told I need an address.

The ignorance of some of the posters on this thread is shocking. Many posters, myself included, have explained the process and the rationale behind "asking stupid questions" and yet, people still can't/wont comprehend the reasons for them.
But if you haven't got the information they want and can't get and have explained why you are told they need it.
I understand about describing age, location whats happened etc but if you don't know what's happened and said that what are you supposed to do once you've explained why you don't know.

Well probably. If they had been stabbed in the hand or foot or abdomen would make a difference to urgency.

I understand you were a bit panicked op but getting the guys name and age should have been possible if he was conscious?

It’s vital information needed to access medical records. Also good to engage with a patient if possible to keep them calm/conscious?
Failing that, most people have some form of ID in their pocket.

The whole situation went fairly smoothly, an ambulance was despatched .

It can feel discombobulating to help a member of the public and call an ambulance and then be ignored when the paramedics come and take them to hospital.
I’ve done it, and you feel a bit disoriented. You wonder if you could have done more and replay it in your mind.

I don’t think you need to feel angry or poorly treated though.

@SmileyClare she didn't say she does?

@Annielou67 that's awful, poor lass.

Trouble is, people call ambulances for very minor conditions
I broke my ankle( didn’t know at time) and passerby wanted to call an ambulance .
I refused.

This is why the ambulance service is so stretched.
People lack basic comprehension and will call an ambulance for the slightest thing sometimes .
They are for life or death situations, surely.