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Worklife vs School life - discuss

70 replies

HolyGrapefruit · 22/05/2024 13:55

(This isn't mine, I saw it on Twitter from @ naomicfisher but I thought it was very good:)

Imagine you start a new job and they send a strict dress code, down to the colour of your socks and style of your shoe. They also send you a list of equipment which they say you must have every day. Some of it seems a bit strange - two green pens?- but off you go dutifully to Smiths and equip yourself.

On the first day, you’re lined up with your colleagues and inspected. Anyone whose clothes aren’t exactly according to the dress code is told they’ll have to work an extra half hour. Same for any missing equipment. The penalties add up - wrong colour socks and missing protractor? One hour after work.

You’re a bit concerned at this because you had arranged a lift home and if you have to stay late you’ll miss it. You check your clothes and equipment, all seems okay. You pass the check, but the woman next to you has the wrong shoes. She’s distressed at the news that she’ll be staying late - she had plans later. Tough. She starts worrying about how she’s going to get new shoes to avoid the same tomorrow whilst also staying late at work. You don’t know how to help.

You get into your office and look around at your colleagues, but there’s no time to chat. On the whiteboard is a list of expectations for the day. You must be on task at all times and this will be monitored through your computer. Toilet breaks are limited to particular times and you’ll be queuing because it’s the same time for everyone. Eyes must be kept on your computer and this will be tracked. You must sit facing forwards and not slouch. You must use a regulation ruler whenever you read a document. If you break the rules, you’ll be kept after work the same day.

You’re told that if you get too many ‘after works’ then you’ll spend a day in the Quiet Room where no one will talk to you for the whole day and you can’t eat lunch with your colleagues or go to the toilet more than twice. You start to feel a sense of unease. You’re worried about whether you can comply and what will happen if you start gazing off into space or rocking on your chair.

The office is very quiet. ‘Isn’t it lovely?’ says your manager. ‘People here appreciate our structure and clear boundaries. You’ll do the best work you have ever done here because no time is wasted. We’ve set it up so you don’t have to worry about making decisions, you just do what we say and concentrate on your work’.

You think perhaps this isn’t the right place for you, but they remind you that you’ve signed a five year contract without a get out clause. There are no other options. You are powerless.

What effect would that have on you? Would you be happy and relaxed at work? Would you be motivated and doing your best for those five years? Might you feel anxious and trapped or resentful and angry?

And why would we think it would be any different for our kids?

OP posts:
Gladtobeout · 23/05/2024 07:35

I think anyone that thinks like the OP is the reason why school rules are so strict. It's never their little darlings is it? They're just exploring/expressing themselves/being kids!

If we had more parents backing up schools and their rules, schools could function with less 'draconian' rules.

DaisyHaites · 23/05/2024 07:40

Nat6999 · 23/05/2024 00:01

Your family member has a choice, they can choose to not work there, most kids have to go to the school they are sent to, the choice thing is a joke because if you put down schools out of catchment you have no chance of getting in. When I applied for ds we didn't want the local school but there is only one school in our catchment area, the schools we would have liked were massively oversubscribed & had we not put the local school he would most likely been sent to a failing school 3 miles away that nobody wants. The biggest failing is that most secondary schools are just too big, at least 1500 pupils, it is a one size fits all situation, some children thrive at the big schools but a lot of children just can't cope, we need some smaller secondary schools, maybe no more than a 3 form entry per year instead of the 10 form entry there is now.

They can choose not to work there. But they’ve submitted hundreds of job applications and not heard back. So their choice is to work there or become homeless and starve.

And to be honest, I imagine most of the other places they’ve applied have similar rules.

So even less of a choice than the kids have, I would say.

As I said, that’s a judgement from a place of privilege.

mitogoshi · 23/05/2024 08:33

Whilst I do understand what you are trying to say but many jobs have uniforms! Dsd has to wear the company issued polo shirt, sweatshirt plus plain black trousers (not jeans) and closed plain black shoes with black socks as per company rules, hair must be tied back.

As for equipment, you should have seen the list my dd had to buy for the military, yes public service! Cost around £300 and if you were a care leaver or low income there was an email/number to contact to get assistance, as had to buy a peak rail ticket though this was reimbursed eventually

thevegetablesoup · 23/05/2024 10:39

This whole debate really winds me up. Lots of people in cosy wfh jobs saying oh I don't have to follow any rules, I can do whatever I like, whereas those of us on the coalface in education, who are in schools day in day out dealing with unprecedented challenges in the sector, are idiots for wanting order over chaos.

If you know how to do it so much better than us maybe consider training as a teacher yourself.

Zimunya · 23/05/2024 10:48

Gladtobeout · 23/05/2024 07:35

I think anyone that thinks like the OP is the reason why school rules are so strict. It's never their little darlings is it? They're just exploring/expressing themselves/being kids!

If we had more parents backing up schools and their rules, schools could function with less 'draconian' rules.

Yes. This.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 23/05/2024 11:01

As a science teacher, I don't drink in the labs, and I can't go to the loo during lesson time. I do allow students to go to the loo if desperate, but they all know there is a rule of no drinking in the labs for their safety. Those saying they wouldn't put up with this at work, aren't you lucky that others will in order to educate your children?

I've also had jobs where I was supplied with uniform or required to wear PPE to a certain standard (which I supplied at my own expense at times).

I'm not saying that I agree with all policies in all schools at all times, but I do think the twitter post is a bit odd and does suggest the author has only worked in a very particular subset of jobs- does she think her arguments apply to e.g. a bus driver, a nurse, a firefighter, a lab tech etc?

Also, students and their families do very much have a range of options to leave a school- it's not a prison.

In terms of toilets it is really tricky because of vandalism, vaping, self harm etc. I have worked in a school where nearly all the boys' toilets were vandalised in one day, we were nearly in the position of having to send students home.

AlanStitchmarsh · 23/05/2024 11:05

Zimunya · 22/05/2024 14:04

I get where this is going, but as it was asked as a direct question, I'm happy to answer! I would have covered the dress code and the stationery requirement at the initial interview stage (as I'm sure pupils do when they investigate a school). If I was that put out about the uniform rules, I'd have walked away at that stage (as prospective pupils can do too). I would never send my DD to a school that had loo breaks at a specific time (and nor would I take a job where this was the case). Bodily functions happen. Women and girls have periods etc that can't alsways be dealt with at pre determined break times.

Not everyone has the luxury of choice.

Zimunya · 23/05/2024 12:09

AlanStitchmarsh · 23/05/2024 11:05

Not everyone has the luxury of choice.

Yup, Already pointed out by @flossyragdoll on Page 1. You're both correct.

My response was not based on reality, as I took the orignal post to be done in a tongue-in-cheek manner. But I completely understand that the reality of school and work can feel exactly that way for some people, so fair play to both of you.

FruitFlyPie · 23/05/2024 12:21

I don't agree with every rule in schools but the comparison to work isn't there. I mean what if your boss tried to breastfeed you, that would be assault, but it's fine for a mother and her baby isn't it.

PuttingDownRoots · 23/05/2024 12:33

If you were to go into your workplace, be destructive, smoke in the toilets, start a fight and do no actual work... you would be sacked.

However children have a right to education... so its hard to expel or even exclude them.

jay55 · 23/05/2024 13:29

Post lockdown everywhere I've worked has relaxed the dress code, not necessarily officially but it's happened.
A decade ago some places had super detailed, down to the colour of tights allowed requirements and I'm very glad those days have gone.

In the same time schools have gone the other way, bringing back ties and blazers and ridiculous rules.

I will never understand schools having overly strict uniforms, especially when it comes to footwear, skirt length, blazers and other school branded items. I'm all for plain, practical and comfortable.

FawnFrenchieMum · 23/05/2024 14:30

Zimunya · 22/05/2024 14:04

I get where this is going, but as it was asked as a direct question, I'm happy to answer! I would have covered the dress code and the stationery requirement at the initial interview stage (as I'm sure pupils do when they investigate a school). If I was that put out about the uniform rules, I'd have walked away at that stage (as prospective pupils can do too). I would never send my DD to a school that had loo breaks at a specific time (and nor would I take a job where this was the case). Bodily functions happen. Women and girls have periods etc that can't alsways be dealt with at pre determined break times.

But this isn’t always true is it. I can choose my job but all three of our nearest schools are part of the same academy trust with the same rules. Unless you can home school or afford private school, we don’t have a choice to send our children there.

Upinthenightagain · 23/05/2024 14:34

This has been posted today on a school parents group. Stirring trouble for schools that are doing there best in difficult circumstances with even more difficult kids

Zimunya · 23/05/2024 14:59

FawnFrenchieMum · 23/05/2024 14:30

But this isn’t always true is it. I can choose my job but all three of our nearest schools are part of the same academy trust with the same rules. Unless you can home school or afford private school, we don’t have a choice to send our children there.

Yup, Already pointed out by @flossyragdoll on Page 1, @AlanStitchmarsh above, and now you. You're all correct.

My response was not based on reality, as I took the orignal post to be done in a tongue-in-cheek manner. But I completely understand that the reality of school and work can feel exactly that way for some people.

Fasterthanacarrot · 23/05/2024 15:05

My dd got a detention last week because on a very warm day it also rained and she wore a thin rain jacket over the school polo shirt - this is not allowed she had to either wear just the polo shirt or the jumper and coat as well as the rules are no coat without a jumper ???? She argued this and was given a detention , so she didn’t go to it and I then had to have a meeting with them . It’s ridiculous

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 23/05/2024 16:01

Gladtobeout · 23/05/2024 07:35

I think anyone that thinks like the OP is the reason why school rules are so strict. It's never their little darlings is it? They're just exploring/expressing themselves/being kids!

If we had more parents backing up schools and their rules, schools could function with less 'draconian' rules.

Absolutely. I do think the draconian rules should only be for behaviour though, not things like having the wrong colour socks. Uniform rules are so tedious and time-wasting to enforce. Most teachers don't actually give a monkey's about them. We just have to enforce it because it's school policy and it's not fair if some teachers do as they're told and look like the bad guy to the kids, while others don't bother.

I kind of blame parents a bit for that too though. Schools know that a smart, formal uniform, correctly worn, gives prospective parents a good impression of the school and of its students (even if it's a completely false impression!). Of course those same parents will probably be moaning about the draconian uniform rules and the cost of the uniform once their kids are actually at the school though.

jay55 · 23/05/2024 17:01

@Fasterthanacarrot that's a moronic rule given the UK weather. Glad your daughter stood up for herself, even if it did end in detention.

SparrowFeet · 23/05/2024 17:11

Xyz1234567 · 22/05/2024 21:37

What op has written is utter, utter tripe.
Pupils are not responsible adults, they are children. It is absolutely crap parents with this kind of mentality that raise feral brats who make the lives of teachers and those kids that want to get an education, a bloody nightmare.

Nailed it.

SeanMean · 23/05/2024 19:54

What a ridiculous OP.

How many of your workforce are teenagers? Rather than adults who want to be there.

So many things I could write but you can’t argue with stupid.

SofaThrow · 23/05/2024 19:56

MargaretThursday · 22/05/2024 14:16

Anything like this is rather silly, in a way that tries to manipulate readers in a specific, very obvious way. Anyone who agrees with whatever it is trying to manipulate thinks it's brilliant and persuasive; it is neither.

What about:
Imagine you arrive at work wanting to work hard and do your best and find there's a group of people in every room that are messing about and making it hard to concentrate. Your supervisor spends so long trying to get them to get on that they don't have time to answer your one question so you don't manage to complete the task. You complain and your supervisor says that he's been told that workers here are free spirits so should work however they want to....

This.

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