Didn't get the job that I already do...

[LilacPombear]

I found out I didn’t get an internal role - a role which I am currently doing. Only difference was contract and overall job security. All responsibilities and duties I have been doing for almost 2 years . The role came out last year and I had applied back then but a 'mix up' with a previous manager meant I missed out on the role. She apologised for her error and then few months later was replaced. New manager has been good and I felt, we had a good working relationship. I've been happier at work under the new management and felt I had grown in confidence.

There has been frustration regarding the new manager, that she lacks taking charge and is easily swayed by colleagues. So when she said during the feedback that it was the other interviewer (never met or seen this person before and has nothing to do with our department) felt I had no personality and was very formal, I was taken back slightly. Manager said it would have been nice to see more of my personality in the interview rather than 'answering the questions and getting to the point'. I'm not to sure what that mean if I'm being honest!

I was told my interview was outstanding but there was someone else who scored a few points more. This person does not currently do the job I'm doing but work for the organisations, so feels a bit crap that I didn't score high enough for a role I already do, particularly against someone who is unfamiliar with the way it all operates.

Before I applied, I made a list of Pros and Cons and honestly, my current position had more pros... but in terms of job security, the new role had the upper hand. Hence why I applied. I have plenty of experience, completed further studies so now have a qualification in a specialism (the only person to have this in our team). I've also taken on additional responsibilities' and trained the new trainees. Without blowing my own trumpet, the type of work I do has a mix of patient facing and liaising with other professions and I get glowing feedback. I've had people request to the manager if I can be on their department. It’s an emotionally challenging job and I thought I was good at it.

Without being outing I think a lot of it comes down to money, - it’s complicated but I am more 'expensive' to the organisation. I am also the youngest of my team and I know they will never say it, but I do think whether they 'worry' I'll go off on maternity etc. and they'll have to recruit again and all that. It's just a niggling feeling I had.

The difficult part is this is not the first time it has happened. The mix up last year and now not getting this, it just feels slightly embarrassing? Manager has also followed up if I'd be interested in an opportunity to train the new person?!

And a part of me (my ego I guess) wants to look for other jobs, but the thing about the job is that it really works well in terms of managing childcare etc. I also do love the job itself and the patients.

I'm not sure what I'm looking for - just wanted to get it all out!

I’d look elsewhere op

they've given you mixed messages but ultimately not the job

which if they wanted you to have it, you’d have it

You need to leave asap.

And you should say to your manager "don't you realise how utterly insulting and demeaning it is to appoint someone else into the role I am already doing and suggest that I train them. You appointed them because you reckon they are better than me. Of course I can't train them. If I could, you would have given me the job"

Time to move on and say feck off to training the new person.

This is awful; and OP can't just walk out of a job that fits with her childcare responsibilities.
I'd be looking elsewhere and if you have to stay until you have a suitable new job line up, talk to your union rep and ACAS. They should be made aware of how bad this manager is.

The one difference is if you are public sector in which case I would request feedback on the criteria you "didn't perform highly enough on". As recruitment tends to be criterion based rather than just on experience. And I know lots of people haven't got the job they have been doing. It does cause bad feeling but the feedback can help in future applications.

Maybe you don't interview well? I've interviewed candidates I know have excellent credentials for the job on offer, and they think they do well in the interview but they really don't, they assume too much prior knowledge from the panel and don't detail what it is that makes them good at the job. I would ask for more detailed feedback.

Going back quite a few years, this happened when I applied for a job. Only thing was there were several interviewees including the temporary personnel who had been doing the job for six months.
She was very professional and trained me up on how to do the job but I could well understand her annoyance at not being considered for the position. She did eventually leave but I have noticed over the years that my employers had a tendency to do this and employed external candidates over people who were very competent and with whom they were satisfied with their work. Either that or they already had someone in mind when filling a post which meant that applicants were basically wasting their time.

I'd be looking for a new job, and letting my manager know it. She can stick the 'opportunity' to train the new person too.

Thing is, just because you are currently doing the job doesn’t mean that you were the best candidate at interview.

I would ask for feedback regarding your application, but sometimes it just happens that way.

Are you going to be out of work, are they giving you notice?

I don’t quite follow - does this job you didn’t get replace the one you have or is additional or something else? So I’m not sure where this leaves you now?

Op,I know you’re trying to find reasons, cost, maternity, but honestly it seems they feel the other person performed better at interview as fhey said. Clearly both who interviewed felt this. It suck’s, I get the disappointment, but they have made it clear you’re not getting the job permanently. So start looking for other roles.

Op, can you clarify on this, on one hand you say you’re doing this new role, on the other you say you have a current role. Unless very part time on the latter, you can’t be doing both. So have you been doing a bit more on top of existing and now they e made it a full time role.and you will stay in your current role?

' interested in an opportunity to train the new person?' How insensitive of your manager. Piling on the agony with no thoughts or care about how you may be feeling.
If the other candidate proved their competency at interview they shouldn't need too much training. Let the manager do it.

Time to find another job OP with a company that will value you and provide you with opportunities for progression.

They have shown you twice that they have no interest in seeing you progress.

As for the training: if this was the best candidate they should have the skills and experience to do the job already and should not require training.

The manager should be responsible for doing an induction that will help the new starter to familiarise themselves with the organisation and the processes in place.

Also I would point blank ask in your next one to one meeting with your manager what is available for you to develop your career further in this organisation...

Do not train the new person … say this person had great ideas during the interview process I am sure you and they can work it out.

Then do your job description nothing more nothing less , I’d be insulted in your shoes and starting to look elsewhere

It is wholly inappropriate of them to ask you to train someone for a job they don't consider you good enough for. No-one should ever be asked to train someone recruited over them or on a higher band yet companies ask this all the time and there are many threads on here where it has happened.

Please tell them that you're really shocked they've asked something so inappropriate of you. Just that. In other words, don't say "no", but definitely don't say "yes". Just that it is inappropriate. It will leave them not knowing what to say to you next and wondering how to get you to do it or that they'll have to do it themselves. Recommend updating your CV and seeing what else is available. It is difficult to have any loyalty to people who mess you around, tell you you're not good enough for a job, but you are good enough to do the work for that job.

Forgot to add, do ask them to go through the interview with you. They should be able to do this in detail - saying what answers you gave to each question and which could have been better and why. Don't be fobbed off if they try to - insist that they do. It isn't a pleasant thing to have to do, but it is essential after an unsuccessful interview as it may be that you are weak in some areas in your answers and you can work on this and in the future present yourself more successfully. It helps you avoid repeating any mistakes.

I would respond to the manager asking why you didn’t get the job, if you are in a position to train someone else to do the job. Not in those words, a bit more professional.

can you move to a different organisation?

I would definitely turn down the chance of training in the new appointee. If you were not good enough for the job, then you are definitely not up to training a new employee. The brass neck of them FFS.

Also, start looking elsewhere. This is not going to get any better.

When I was younger and more innocent I thought things like rejecting candidates because they are of maternity leave age was a thing of the past. Now I am very clear it is seriously impactful in terms of getting jobs. It’s absolutely not right or fair, but it sounds like the decision was definitely influenced by this. Not your capability.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Lots to think about. Will absolutely NOT be training the person and felt it was completely inappropriate to ask.

The feedback was that one of the interviewers felt I did not show any personality during the interviewer. Manager was also in the interview and her feedback was slightly confusing as she said I have a ‘charming nature and my warmth and care for patients shone through’, but also said, she agreed with Interviewer re personality.

Also said I answered the questions with a ‘black and white approach’ and they would have liked to see it from a different angle.
There was nothing about my capabilities or skills. Nothing about lacking experience. In a way, no areas that I can go on to improve… maybe just need more of a personality 😬

It’s difficult, if I wasn’t a mum or a carer, I would be thinking and planning my exist as I don’t feel valued here anymore. The ‘lead up’ to the interview now feels slightly calculated.

But the flexibility within the organisation (in a role that usually is notorious for being rigid) means that childcare has become manageable, I can do the pickup few times a week. I can make the medical appointments and overall, just more ‘present’ in so many aspects. I also love the job itself; it’s rewarding but also emotionally draining due to its nature. In the last 6 months I have become (or thought it at least) much more confident in the role. Have supported several new team members in their training. Further qualifications. Have had glowing reports.

I absolutely appreciate the better candidate got the job. But because they haven't done this role before, so will be training from starch like I did, 2 years ago. So I can’t help but doubt my abilities if someone who hasn’t done the job ever before while I have, has come across as the more desirable candidate.

I now have lots to think about and consider. Perhaps a blessing in disguise and just need to ponder to see it.

Your feedback was lack of personality? That's clearly a fudge

I would be insulted. You are good enough to do the job for 2 years but not permanently. Well then the new person can crack on. You do not train them. I would also make it clear to your line manager you are looking for another job. I bet they are reliant on you training and holding the fort whilst the new person settles in. No.

Why would they hire you when they know they can treat you how they want and you'll do it anyway, as well as train people?

Stop doing the extra work and decline the opportunity to train new person. Go back to the role you're being paid for.

I left my last company over a similar situation - my team leader left, and I had recently done several interviews for a deputy team leader role in a different office, where they basically had no feedback to give me as I had interviewed well. I knew my TL was going and held off for that role, only to be told a couple of weeks later that our new TL was starting on X date! I was furious, as I'd not even been offered the opportunity to interview, and when I had a full and frank discussion with the director, was told I didn't want to go into people management anyway (?). The writing was on the wall for my progress at that company so I started interviewing elsewhere, was offered a TL role and took it, and handed in my notice on the new TLs 3rd day.

I was also asked to put together a training programme for the new TL and quite enjoyed telling the IT director that I obviously wasn't qualified to comment on that as I wasn't a TL. Still think it was ridiculous that they thought I would do all their leg work when they'd made it clear what they thought of me. It was a small company as well, we were really tight knit, so I was sad to leave but it was absolutely the right decision. I poached one of my colleagues six months later as well.

Looking back, I think they offered her the role to justify the salary that she wanted. The jokes on them in the long run, she's really lazy and awful at her job. The company was also bought over after I left and I was entitled to a share of the sales funds, which I KNOW stuck in their throats!!