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So if teachers are leaving in droves

577 replies

BlastedPimples · 19/05/2024 18:25

and recruitment is very low, what is going to happen? It can't continue like this surely and education levels will suffer enormously.

Massive classes for the teachers that remain?

Huge recruitment drive to entice more people into the profession?

Entice teachers out of retirement?

Recruitment from abroad?

OP posts:
AbFabDaaaaahling · 21/05/2024 18:35

So many TAs I know are using food banks.

Democracymanifest · 21/05/2024 18:36

AbFabDaaaaahling · 21/05/2024 18:34

My school have told the kids no money for pens - they're having to use pencils. One glue stick between about four. No whiteboard pens for whiteboards.

Because all the money is going on salaries

AbFabDaaaaahling · 21/05/2024 18:37

@Democracymanifest No - because there is no money.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

ExpatAl · 21/05/2024 18:46

AbFabDaaaaahling · 21/05/2024 18:34

My school have told the kids no money for pens - they're having to use pencils. One glue stick between about four. No whiteboard pens for whiteboards.

So so miserable. It must trickle down to the kids.
But interesting to know school is expected to
provide everything. We are given a list of provisions to get, which includes glue, pen etc.

AbFabDaaaaahling · 21/05/2024 18:51

@ExpatAl So many of our kids are living in incredibly difficult circumstances. They come into school hungry so no chance they are going to be able to come in with stationery. My heart breaks for them.

ExpatAl · 21/05/2024 18:54

AbFabDaaaaahling · 21/05/2024 18:51

@ExpatAl So many of our kids are living in incredibly difficult circumstances. They come into school hungry so no chance they are going to be able to come in with stationery. My heart breaks for them.

Terrible situation. It’s shameful.

Headingforholidays · 21/05/2024 19:04

MaidOfAle · 19/05/2024 22:40

I’ve worked in schools where either the parents become more entitled and extremely rude or they are totally disengaged

They are either fighting hard for their kids in a resource-starved school or have given up fighting for them.

I think the understaffing came first, not the entitled parents.

No, this is definitely not true. My school is not understaffed, we have a subject specialist in front of every class & a minority of parents are rude, argumentative and don't support school, blaming us for issues which are clearly caused by poor parenting.

ExpatAl · 21/05/2024 21:30

Can it all be down to poor parenting? I don’t think all parents are stellar here but kids behave, parents are respectful. It must be something to do with assumed authority, expectation.

labamba007 · 21/05/2024 21:51

eish · 19/05/2024 18:43

I still love my teaching job but the needs are SO much higher than ten years ago and I do t get any more adult support to help those children. The job gets harder and harder and I’ve worked in schools where either the parents become more entitled and extremely rude or they are totally disengaged. I am on top of behaviour but for a new teacher, managing this and getting it right is much harder these days, never mind the teaching. This is the only job where you are expected to be an expert immediately.

On top of this there is an expectation of evidencing everything and unnecessary work. However, as the calibre of person comes through all this evidencing and checks become necessary. We are in a Catch 22.

I've always wanted to understand this so forgive me, but why are the needs so much higher than 10 years ago?

MistressIggi · 21/05/2024 21:57

I don't know about England, but I saw this from a teachers' union in Scotland
in secondary schools there were over six times as many children with additional support needs in 2018 than identified a decade earlier @labamba007

SpindleyDindley · 21/05/2024 22:06

OFSTED are an absolute shit show. A close friend of mine is a teacher and at their inspection there were lesson observations, 1to1 talks with senior leadership but teachers were only given group sessions. The school has a truckload of issues due to the attitude of the senior leadership team but they learnt about none of this because the teachers were not given a suitable environment to openly speak.

I know a few teachers and I get the impression OFSTED are one of the reasons that our education system is falling apart.

OutOfTheHouse · 21/05/2024 22:11

labamba007 · 21/05/2024 21:51

I've always wanted to understand this so forgive me, but why are the needs so much higher than 10 years ago?

So many less special school places, which results in many more children in mainstream who shouldn’t be there. This also means that they are getting the focus of the support, and rightly so, meaning that children who would have had support a few years ago now get nothing. Add to that a reduction in support staff and you have very limited support for a large number of children.

Shinyandnew1 · 21/05/2024 22:28

More pupils are surviving difficult pregnancies/births and early deliveries.

Fewer special school spaces, so mainstream schools now have children with extensive needs who would never have had to be forced to accept a mainstream school place 15 years ago.

A much more narrow, (yet overfull and boring) curriculum with little scope for fun or consolation and more focus on results, revision and attendance, with ‘mental health’ as a token piece of government lip service/bolt-on, without giving schools the flexibility, funding or external health support needed to do anything to actually help.

I also think that more people with SEN themselves are having relationships/children, then in the past and often having children with similar needs to themselves.

cardibach · 22/05/2024 09:57

DramaLlamaBangBang · 21/05/2024 12:27

Blimey I don't blame you! That is shockingly bad pay for such a huge responsibility. How on earth can that be justified? What is the difference between a TA and a teacher now then ( apart from pay)? Are teachers just doing admin and stats that used to be done by a course manager or head of department? What is the NEU doing about this? Nothing I presume.

Edited

Why would you presume that? It was part of all the info during the last strikes, for eg, but people kept banging on about teachers thinking they’re special and wanting big pay rises. However - the NEU doesn’t represent TAs, so you wouldn’t expect them to advocate for their pay and conditions routinely.

angela1952 · 22/05/2024 12:11

labamba007 · 21/05/2024 21:51

I've always wanted to understand this so forgive me, but why are the needs so much higher than 10 years ago?

In our family's case our GC are not officially classed as SEN but were in care through lockdown before being adopted by my DD. Although my GD went to school throughout she learnt absolutely nothing, could not read, write or interact normally socially. Fortunately, as they are adopted, the school does get extra funding if they need it, but many children's education suffered through lockdown for various reasons. There is some government money to cover this for all children but it seems to be being swallowed up due to the poor funding in general.

Sahara123 · 22/05/2024 12:12

MagnetCarHair · 19/05/2024 18:39

The same magic place they are getting all these tradespeople to build all these houses?

Exactly. And nhs staff ..

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 12:43

SpindleyDindley · 21/05/2024 22:06

OFSTED are an absolute shit show. A close friend of mine is a teacher and at their inspection there were lesson observations, 1to1 talks with senior leadership but teachers were only given group sessions. The school has a truckload of issues due to the attitude of the senior leadership team but they learnt about none of this because the teachers were not given a suitable environment to openly speak.

I know a few teachers and I get the impression OFSTED are one of the reasons that our education system is falling apart.

Edited

No fan of OFSTED but all staff are asked to complete an anonymous written feedback questionnaire.
Staff always have the chance to feedback.

cardibach · 22/05/2024 13:01

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 12:43

No fan of OFSTED but all staff are asked to complete an anonymous written feedback questionnaire.
Staff always have the chance to feedback.

Well, yes and no. It’s always been pretty easy for me as a member of a core subject team but if you are the sole teacher of, say, A level German any comment you make about support for A level German from the SLT ceases to be anonymous. Similarly with comments about teaching in the report.

noblegiraffe · 22/05/2024 13:52

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 12:43

No fan of OFSTED but all staff are asked to complete an anonymous written feedback questionnaire.
Staff always have the chance to feedback.

I know of at least one school where staff weren’t given the questionnaire. I’ve taught in a school where the headteacher went through the results and bitched about the staff responses while making it clear they knew who it was. And I know where staff have complained en-masse in the questionnaire and Ofsted didn’t even mention it in their report let alone do anything about it.

Also, Ofsted are the enemy of schools, so when Ofsted call, teachers tend to band together and protect the school. Hard to be open with such a despicable organisation.

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 15:53

noblegiraffe · 22/05/2024 13:52

I know of at least one school where staff weren’t given the questionnaire. I’ve taught in a school where the headteacher went through the results and bitched about the staff responses while making it clear they knew who it was. And I know where staff have complained en-masse in the questionnaire and Ofsted didn’t even mention it in their report let alone do anything about it.

Also, Ofsted are the enemy of schools, so when Ofsted call, teachers tend to band together and protect the school. Hard to be open with such a despicable organisation.

Oh, I know. But vital that staff make their voices heard.

noblegiraffe · 22/05/2024 15:55

Why, when nothing happens?

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 15:55

cardibach · 22/05/2024 13:01

Well, yes and no. It’s always been pretty easy for me as a member of a core subject team but if you are the sole teacher of, say, A level German any comment you make about support for A level German from the SLT ceases to be anonymous. Similarly with comments about teaching in the report.

Edited

I work with schools, some locally are tiny. Even the report singles teachers out if there are only two classes - EY/KS1 and KS2.

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 15:59

noblegiraffe · 22/05/2024 15:55

Why, when nothing happens?

I know it does, I have worked where staff feedback has led to poor leadership judgements and removal of leaders.

The statement of action, to be agreed by the DfE, had to include staff health and well-being, relationships, regular systems for staff feedback to governors, LA and/or trust. Accountability beyond a couple of days of inspection.

Shinyandnew1 · 22/05/2024 16:21

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 12:43

No fan of OFSTED but all staff are asked to complete an anonymous written feedback questionnaire.
Staff always have the chance to feedback.

Agree with this. Teachers aren’t given a 1:1 session with an Ofsted inspector to talk about their views or to air their grievances in secret anyway, any 1:1 meeting is just a grilling by the inspectorate on whatever their current agenda is!

PenguinLord · 22/05/2024 19:32

ArlaDae · 22/05/2024 12:43

No fan of OFSTED but all staff are asked to complete an anonymous written feedback questionnaire.
Staff always have the chance to feedback.

No they dont- because if you put negative stuff, YOU suffer if the school is downgraded. That happened in the previous school staff fedback negatively and head made sure to make us suffer, lots of people left. At the end of the day many lie because saying the truth is just shooting yourself in the foot. Plus if Ofsted wants to downgrade your school anyways, that is just handing them what they need.

Not to mention the school I was at where we got a paper questionnaire and SLT took out the negative ones so Ofsted never even got to see them.