So if teachers are leaving in droves

[BlastedPimples]

and recruitment is very low, what is going to happen? It can't continue like this surely and education levels will suffer enormously.

Massive classes for the teachers that remain?

Huge recruitment drive to entice more people into the profession?

Entice teachers out of retirement?

Recruitment from abroad?

Decent teachers would also stop lots of parental complaints! The quality is so poor, due to many of the above mentioned reasons, that if you’re a decent parent and expect decent standards, the likelihood is that you won’t be happy with the quality of teaching that’s apparently acceptable now. Teachers who can’t spell, can’t be arsed to turn up, who lose work - all examples in the past year with my own DC. One teacher DD had used to miss the first day back after every holiday. The kids knew the pattern. SLT at the school simply didn’t care. She also had an online blog that she updated on the days she was off ‘sick’. Again, neither the SLT at the school, nor the governing body, could have cared less. They’d rather have had the worst teacher ever than no teacher at all. In fact, I’d go so far as to say she wasn’t a teacher as she failed to teach anyone anything. Called in sick for the last half term of the year and was not replaced. Seen happily out and about locally though.

The Tories dont care, their kids go private and poorly educated state kids means less competition when their kids go to University

The problem extends well beyond schools. The Tories have broken this country. When families can’t afford to feed and house their children adequately despite working. When it’s impossible to see a GP or dentist so both adults and children’s health is suffering. When professional people have to visit food banks to survive. All these issues migrate to schools. Schools have had their budgets slashed, their curriculums are narrow, over full and not fit for purpose and teachers are given u realistic workloads then you get the crisis we have now. There is no quick fix, it’s not just about shipping in/training new teachers - it’s about creating an environment where the job is possible.

noblegiraffe · Today 07:34
A shit teacher with a bank of resources is still a shit teacher.

As a maths teacher, there are tonnes of free resources out there, PowerPoints, worksheets and so on, e.g. Dr Frost, Corbettmaths. Schools also buy in maths resources like mathswatch, Sparx, Mathspad, Goteachmaths. Maths teachers have to do very little planning or even marking.

I've seen perfectly good PowerPoints delivered absolutely terribly leaving kids without a clue as to what is going on.

The idea that all we need to solve the problem is a set of centralised resources and some people to 'deliver' it is just wrong.

I could not agree more, especially about the centralised resources and the "delivering". How can people be so ignorant and so lacking in imagination? A brilliant teacher is a "presence". S/he is a force of nature in the room. The sheer energy and enthusiasm of a brilliant teacher inspires learning, especially when s/he has instinctively identified the kids who need particular approaches. I remember many a parent at p/t meetings saying, with reference to a report I had written "How on earth can you know my child so well? You have summed him up perfectly." The knack is in LISTENING to kids. Not just hearing what their answer is.

SEN specialists could be helpful within school systems. If more of the cohort are being diagnosed - then provision should be made for them to stop them being excluded and parents being forced into home schooling.

SALT can take whole groups and both Sen teaching methods and SALT can be beneficial for all students.
But it wasn’t meant as a prescriptive - timetabling different groups per need and per subject is already in place. I think we were discussing alternatives to cover PPA? I’ve also seen OT used effectively with small groups.
If teachers were better supported in the welfare of children in their classrooms, it might improve retention with better behavioural outcomes. Current method of letting an overworked, underpaid TA carry this burden is not effective and very short sighted. And unfair.

I love reaching and am not intent on leaving for sometime. However, I work in a decent school that doesn’t have a issue with retention, and there’s always a queue of applicants for jobs.

This is a second career, 5 years in and on UP3. I do work 4 days per weeks so this does make a massive difference.

My biggest issues are increased ‘directed time’, no time in lessons to go through HW due to the nature and content heavy science subjects. Introduction of more IT (think iPads and 3 different associated software packages showbie etc that are not fit for purpose) and having to set everything up for these as well as the normal lessons.

As for politicians, why is anyone expecting a change with a new government? They all promise and never deliver, regardless of party.

you won’t be happy with the quality of teaching that’s apparently acceptable now.

It’s not acceptable. But poor teaching is increasingly common because we don’t have enough teachers. Beggars can’t be choosers. The inadequate teacher you describe may not even be a qualified teacher. You say the school would rather a shit teacher than no teacher - well someone has to stand in front of those kids don’t they? Would you rather we started sending kids home when there wasn’t a teacher for them?

God forbid if teachers from South Africa are the answer, we’re currently having the very worst experience with one, all the teaching staff affected and the school is crumbling before our eyes. Knows her rights, plays the system and they’re stuck with her. Hate to tar a whole nation with the same brush, but bloody hell, she’s horrific.

I was a level 4 LSA and left teaching because of the appalling wages.
The pupils were manageable but the level of paperwork and admin crept up year on year. It was definitely unsustainable for teachers!

Well, with all the university lecturers being made redundant, maybe they will retrain and be teachers, but I tend to doubt it.

I think one has only to read most of the posts on MN regarding schools to realise that teachers are probably spending as much time managing parents and their ridiculous expectations as they are actively teaching students.

If I ever got into trouble at school my parents took the line that either I must have deserved the punishment or that life isn't fair and that sometimes well-intentioned people make a decision you don't agree with — and you just need to accept that, learn and move on.

It's not just teaching, it's almost every job, ever worsening conditions, ever dwindling rewards then wonder why people don't want the job.

Then the govt. thinks a few TV adverts will solve the problem.

You do know people off sick are allowed out the house, don't you?

Maybe this teacher had mental health issues and struggled going back after breaks. Maybe that's why they needed time off sick

Which makes you one of those parents why teachers are leaving. You know absolutely f*CK all about this teacher but here you are, judging and casting aspersions.

@llamarammma Of course more funding, especially for SEN, is needed, but it's needed on addition to more teachers, not instead of it. I don't know a single secondary school that "covers" PPA with something that isn't a subject lesson. Maybe that happens in primary school? When the Science teachers have PPA, the students are in English, or French, or whatever. You therefore need enough actual proper teachers to staff the timetable, you can't have PPA covered with something that isn't a lesson, unless you reduce the curriculum. That's one approach I suppose, but what would you suggest we cut? If we're increasing PPA, as is necessary to recruit and retain without a significant pay rise, that's an awful lot of time that students are doing something else rather than an actual lesson with qualified teachers. That means cutting an awful lot of the curriculum. We haven't gone down that route though, but maybe we have to?

Just you wait until all the middle class child victims of the private school VAT levy come into the mix. That’s when this absolute fucking shambles of a (Labour) plan will implode, rather predictably. Whoever thought throwing more kids into this fuckpie system would make things any easier, really didn’t have anything but spiteful vote winning in mind. Self-funding, be that for education or for medicine (also VAT exempt), should not be hounded by society. Shame it can’t the seen as the crab in bucket manoeuvre that it so clearly is.

My son's SIL is a teacher and she said instead of teaching she spends most of her time writing reports for children that need extra help or there are family issues so she is more of a social worker than a teacher

I do wish people who are currently/recently in the job therefore the pay wasn’t poor enough to put them off from applying/staying would stop saying that pay isn’t a problem.

The govt have seriously missed their recruitment targets year on year, only filled half the number of secondary places last year, not looking great for next year and that’s with an international recruitment drive. We cannot recruit. Therefore pay is an issue.

All the analysts say pay is a problem, that pay erosion is a problem.

Largely female teachers should stop undervaluing the profession.

I imagine things will become a lot more AI and technology-based in the future. Teachers giving lessons over video feeds will reach many more pupils than standing at the front of the class does. Testing and marking will become a lot more automated. There will be a bigger push toward independent learning and parental involvement. Businesses will be created to exploit and profit from this by providing extra tutoring and materials, home-ed-style groups and clubs will form for parents who don't have the time or ability to help educate their children etc.

If I was paid enough to work four days a week and pay cleaners, child care, meal boxes, dog sitter…
That would go a long way to address the unsustainable stress levels.

The banks of resources idea is already being used in schools. Not to reduce workload but to cope with non-specialists.

So in my subject, maths, it is common for children at secondary to be settled by ability.

You can't use a bank of resources if children are setted by ability because the class where the children are still learning to count to 10 (yes every secondary has these children) can't use the same lessons as the top set where they can already do algebra.

The solution many schools are starting to use is mixed ability classes in maths (possibly with a nurture group of low attainers pulled out which is then taught by a TA) as then you can use pre-prepared lessons.

It's not suitable at gcse or equivalent because at that level if the students are going to be successful you need to look at what they can't do and teach it. So if you run a standardised curriculum in gcse years results will fall.

It also has consequences when used although there is enough in the lessons to support the low attainers and give some challenge to the high attainers there isn't really enough of each. The middle do ok, the high and the low suffer.

It is already happening. A teacher I know was mentoring a student teacher. Her feedback was that she shouldn’t pass but was told she met minimum requirements

So what’s your plan, then?

They are. My relative, who is a teacher, gets really cross as a recent graduate can earn £25-30k and get free training from Teach First. Then start as a qualified teacher on £30k the following year. A pay rise every year, some extra responsibilities and you could be on 60k (in London) before you are 30. Get the right state school and the hours aren’t too bad at all.
He gets very worked up when teachers claim they do lots of “lesson planning”, especially in Maths, as the curriculum doesn’t change that often and you shouldn’t need to do more than an ongoing tweak (unless your lessons aren’t very good to begin with- and most schools give new teachers all the lessons to deliver).
Things won’t get better until the benefits are better publicised.

If schools had a full compliment of staff then a lot of the problems would be resolved. It’s become a self fulfilling prophecy!

There is no need for teachers for the older children. Its old fashioned like the old way of working is.

Children can learn things online .

Why would he be annoyed that people get paid well.?