Walked out of A and E after 9 hours and only triage completed !!

[bumblebee1000]

Don't consider myself at all naive but haven't been anywhere near a hospital for any urgent treatment in over 30 years. Rang 111 yesterday due to constant headaches for almost a week, was advised to attend local hospital [london]. Queue out the door, after 7 hours was seen by a doctor for appx 1 minute who said they will want to do blood tests and possibly an mri scan, was told blood tests could be a further 5 hours, a scan possibly a further 7 to 9 hours so in total basically 24 hours. I couldn't wait so told nurse I was leaving and will follow up with GP and a wealthy old friend has offered to pay the £300 for the mri scan which is lovely. I was stunned to see so many people sleeping on floor and who had been there for hours before me. Then a man went beserk and grabbed a fire extinguisher and smashed in the windows of the reception area, coffe machine and a door, police already on site as were with a chap in hancuffs.....awful. I did notice that many names were called and nobody responded so assume they just left without informing anyone, I felt informing them of my departure, was the least I could do so time isn't wasted on no shows etc.

My surgery has this. However, it isn't switched on until 9am (surgery opens at 8am) and is usually switched back off by 9.30am, as they've 'received all the queries they can deal with for the day'.

The eConsult form is really helpful if you manage to catch it in time, but that in itself is a tricky business!

I hope you feel better soon, Bumble.

Sorry - I tried using the link button rather than just pasting and must have messed up

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-67056279#:~:text=The%20true%20picture%20of%20A%26E,raising%20the%20issue%20for%20months.%20NHS%20Wales:%20Thousands%20of%20hours%20missing%20from%20A&E%20figures%20-%20doctors

It hit news a while ago.

We're Aneurin Bevan - while my GP not great few occasion's we've been near the hospital they've been absolutely fantastic even mid covid.

My parents and IL different bits of midland got hit with long A&E and ambulance waits never really made the news at all. Worst experience was overflow ward off A&E where they parked patients - clearly meant a a temp measure but that got backed up - meant for a few hours then days then weeks - worst thing was no staff or resources assigned - nearly killed my relative.

My GP at 8am you listen to all instructions then get told queue is full and dial tone. Generally get through at 8.40am. get told there's a 72 hour call back by phone after being triaged by the receptionist. We have 11 GPs, used to have 8 nurses three have left. I had to wait 16 days for a callback. It's the same issue. I've been prescribed four different Meds. none worked so far. I still haven't seen anyone in person.

I go into the surgery, never more than three patients in reception. I do know because one of the partners told me himself that he does four days on shift as an out of hours GP at the hospital so does one day in the practice. Another partner works at the police headquarters because they need cover there. That leaves 9 GPS . A receptionist I know from a previous life said most days there's only one GP on the premises.

In the meantime next door the pharmacy are taking the brunt.

I recently had an MRI on my knee. Cost was about equivilant to 100 pounds ( I'm not sure) in Australia. All our blood tests are free. You just wander in with a letter from your doctor and done. Results go to your doctor. X-rays are free too. Public hospitals are free, my Dad is in one right now sadly. Everything done in a public hopsital is free - tests, care, food, medicine etc. It's a pretty good system .
People get private health insurance mainly for the extras - dental, optometrist, "done my ACL and need it done NOW so will go to a private hospital" and maternity if you want your own obstetrician. Hope that answers the question?
Public dentists are shite here too, though they ( used to not sure now) do a regional scheme and check every child at year 3.
Also GP's do not charge for children and it is mostly pretty easy to find one,
A few popular practices have closed their books near me, but there are a lot more and there are bulk-billing GPs ( where you pay nothing - the government pays the doctor ) almost everywhere except in very small towns. You might just have to wait an hour to be seen. Otherwise to see your preferred GP you pay the gap between what the govt covers and what the GP charges ( maybe 15 pounds - guessing). If you have any kind of concession or pension card ( or as I said a child) no GP will charge you anything.

I got sent to A and E for something very minor last week

I got a tampon stuck (sorry TMI). Tried and tried but could not reach it.

Rang the GP. They don't deal with that sort of thing so sent me to urgent care.

Urgent care said my GP had not referred me so I would have to go to A and E to get a referral and come back.

Went to A and E. Explained I needed a referral and urgent care would sort me out.

A and E triage nurse said "no A and E need to see you"

Waited. Saw an A and E doctor who didn't know why I was there (neither did I). He wasn't sure A and E could help.

Waited longer. They got a gynae doctor to sort me out. Which was great but by this time I had taken up the time of

GP's receptionist
Whoever the GP receptionist went and asked
Urgent care receptionist
A and E receptionist
A and E triage nurse
A and E doctor
Gynae doctor, another A and E nurse and someone else on A and E who got roped into be a chaperone

and it took 6 hours.

Or my GP surgery could have got me in front of a nurse with a speculum and and grippy thing and I could have been sorted without taking up that much time and resource.

Seems crazy to me.

111 are wreaking havoc! There needs to be a better system! 111 told me I needed to urgently go to a&e for an ECG because I had back pain. Not what I called about at all! Got to A&E and they said they have nothing to do with 111. 🤷‍♀️ I’d have to sign in and wait like everyone else. Wait time was minimum 6hours. I obviously left. Like a previous poster said I think people need to use their initiative. I wouldn’t call 111 again.

That depends where you live. It’s so typical of MN to assume that everyone lives in a place with access to urgent care, out of hours or same-month GP appointments. In spite of countless people on this thread saying it’s not the case where they are, there are still posters banging on that the OP should’ve gone to the GP.

I live over an hour from the nearest A&E. We don’t have any form of urgent care any closer. GP’s don’t make house calls, at all. If I phone the GP there is a recorded message saying “all our appointments are gone for today, please phone 111 if it’s urgent or 999 if it’s an emergency”. I had a text from the surgery last week saying I need a blood test. The first appointment is the 3rd of June, so almost a month later.

Well you shouldn't have left. If you decided to go to A&E with a very bad headache or were advised to go by 111, then obviously it was bothering you a lot? So the fact you "couldn't stay" at A&E is a bit strange, why not? How was leaving going to rectify your headache/the health situation you were in?
Surely if it was that bad you just stay and wait no matter how long it takes as your health is the number one priority. A&E have to prioritise actual emergencies, likely the people having cardiac arrests, haemorrhages, strokes etc were NOT in the waiting room but being seen to by the doctors.

Sympathy OP. I was advised to go to A&E recently by a pharmacist for a suspected broken ankle after an accident out walking (I'd got a lift there to see if I could get some kind of support bandage and after seeing the state of it they recommended I visit A&E to rule out a fracture). I was triaged within 30 minutes and had an x-ray within two hours; great. Seven hours after the x-ray, at 3.00a.m. I was still waiting to be called to get the results of it. I had to make the decision to sign the self-discharge forms and call a taxi to go home, because waiting for longer than the length of a working day in an uncomfortable plastic chair triggered an underlying chronic health condition I have, and I was almost in tears with the pain from that over and above the pain from my ankle.

No criticism whatsoever of the staff, they never stopped. But the system is broken. I've been to A&E in the past, either as the patient or accompanying a loved one, and yes there's been a long wait (apart from the time it was a suspected stroke) but nothing like this recent experience.

And no, we don't have a walk-in / minor injuries centre in this area, it's A&E or nothing for this kind of thing.

Sounds like more of a GP appointment needed than A&E?

I'd have used my common sense and not bothered accident and emergency - sadly not many, including you OP seem to do this hence why it's so busy.

Free or you pay tax?

Headaches for a week have to be taken seriously people. Friend of sibling had a major stoke and died aged 46. Only complaint was a bad headaches for a couple of days beforehand.

I’ve worked for 3 GP surgeries in 3 different counties and they all follow the same guidelines. They WILL have appointments there for 111 to give out. They will also have appointments blocked out for whatever reason which can be unblocked. I know it’s not nice but sometimes you do have to kick off a little to get what you want. I used to unblock appointments all the time because I hated hearing people in distress.

on the other hand, if it’s urgent enough MH for someone to wait in a&e for hours and hours for then an hours drive to an urgent care centre is nothing in comparison to a 9 hour wait in a&e.

It works out at roughly 2% for taxpayers. Nothing for people under the limit ( about 15000 pounds per person) You can avoid it by taking out private health insurance. It is a divided situation, but all emergencies are taken straight to a public hospital and not charged a cent.

Don't you get it ? She wasted every bodies time ? Right down to the patients who were waiting behind her ? Fair enough the GP sent her there . I assume the problem is still ongoing , what is she going to do now ?

The OP did nothing wrong but unfortunately the system is broken. A previous poster described the advice from 111 as "healthcare professionals" I think- they are not, it's a service run by private contractors as a call center staffed by people with zero medical knowledge.

The call handlers are sometimes young people financing themselves through university or other aspirations, sometimes people close to retirement or in-between jobs, sometimes barely literate people who fell out of other jobs due to various problems. The "training" is teaching them to use a multiple-choice software guiding them through the call. Every call has to follow the same script and the staff don't have the knowledge or the authority to give actual medical advice. This service can kill people, and has in the past killed people because the call handlers aren't able to spot red flags for serious conditions, so more recent policy is to recommend A&E for anything that could be concerning.

The problem is, you can't get an appointment with your GP! A&E is not the place for a lot of these people but if you've been feeling absolutely miserable for days/weeks and can't even get through to you gp to make an appointment what else are you meant to do

It's ridiculous to assume people who are ill, in pain, frightened will make the best possible choice. Add in that some mightnt be that intelligent, some might have incorrect advice, some will have Googled, some will have misremembered something they heard 5 years ago, some have health anxiety, some "dont want to make a fuss"....

Its ludicrous to expect everyone presenting at A&E to be there for good reason. BUT thats the nature of human beings, and not building that in to a system is a failure of the system.

This isn't correct. There are conditions where you may be able to walk out, but could progress to life threatening in hours if untreated. My father had a fall and was up and about, his only symptom being a gradually worsening headache. He was sent to A&E with a suspected bleed on the brain. Within hours he was unable to move or speak and had emergency surgery. Had he walked out (and he wanted to!) he would have died.

My GP receptionist would have told me to do an Econsult, which would have told me to call 111, which would have told me to go to A and E ...

Many years ago, sister had a headache for just over a week. Her GP told her to keep taking pain medication and drink plenty of fluids. She died of a brain abscess. She was just 27. Headaches that last a week may well not be anything serious. But they might.

This does seem to be a bit of a theme.

Countless people with minor issues that could be resolved in a few minutes, yet end up in ‘the system’ requiring enormous amounts of time / resource.

Or - unable to access basic care, they have to head to A+E, worsening the situation there / ending up with prolonged waits as their issue is not life-threatening.

But you can say this about anything a leg ache could be a blood clot, a stomach ache could be internal bleeding, arm ache could be a heart attack. 99% of the time it isn't. If everyone went to a&e for every minor issue, firstly we would all spend our lives there secondly the nhs would collapse in a week. I'm sorry for the loss of your sister that is absolutely horrific but thankfully these things are rare and most people will have other neurological symptoms accompanying a headache when it's serious.

She didn't know if she needed it as she hadn't had the blood test