Nearly £9000 more spent on private secondary pupils than state pupils

[SluggyMuggy]

Research from University College London that found £12,200 a year is the average spending on a privately educated primary pupil, compared with £4,800 on a state pupil. For secondary, it’s £15,000 compared with £6,200.

This entrenches inequality as private pupils are given far more resources towards their education.

Ofcourse they get more spent on them per head. That’s what the parents are paying for. It’s the same with private healthcare. I struggle to understand the point of this thread.

Well - what did you think the fees were for?

And bears do, indeed, shit in the woods.

I suspect the optimum spending would lie somewhere in the middle!
Kids don’t need swimming pools, therapy dogs on tap and endless staff. They just need well maintained facilities, great teaching, early intervention, healthy lunches and some exercise daily. Need not be polo or lacrosse. Running round the field and dance etc enough. Wouldn’t it be nice if the state could just provide that for all children as they do in many other European countries?

Where have you been, @SluggyMuggy??

Have a prize for stating the bloomin’ obvious!

What is the point of this thread? Parents pay fees hence the difference in funding.

Yeah. I mean that's entirely unsurprising. The cost of private schooling has really rocketed.

Back when I first joined MN, so about 15 years ago, it was awash with people claiming you could get your child a private education if only you'd give up shop bought coffees and were prepared to drive an old banger. You don't get much of that now!

Therapy dogs, in state schools? Give over.

Wow, who would have though it hey?

OP can you develop your point a little further, it may help the discussion you want.

So... yes private schools have more money to spend on the pupils. That's why they have smaller classes, better facilities - it's why parents use them.

So what are you proposing as a solution to this issue? Assuming that's what you want to discuss.

Well that why some people pay for education in the first place.

More money for state schools.

Yes, that’s why some people choose to pay.
As pp have said, please explain your thought.

In DCs state schools right now we need behaviour specialists. Unfair on the teachers to expect them to teach AND manage the kind of behaviour difficulties some children are typically going through now post Covid and in this screen addicted generation. If every teacher had a behaviour specialist back up in the room to separate and deal with that aspect it wouldn’t be such a huge mess. Government can keep digging their heads in the sand or start listening to the professionals. I assume private schools just get rid of big trouble makers and have enough pastoral support staff to deal with minor problems before they escalate and they have a pre chosen group and they have far more money.

which is of course what they are paying for.

Also they are saving the government the money that they would need to spend on them were they in the state system so a saving of £4,800 or £6,200.

This reminds me of the research done by Camden Council (many moons ago when I lived there) which stated that most people visited libraries to borrow books.....

Not sure why this needed research or what the point is...generally private anything will have more spent on it. Whether it is better, is another discussion.

How will this translate to more money for state schools?

The point is that private education gives an unfair advantage to the wealthy. Before anyone starts on how they aren’t actually wealthy - Yes you absolutely are wealthy if you can afford private school - saying you aren’t because you sacrifice having new cars or holidays is utter nonsense. If you can afford private school fees you are rolling in it and it’s insulting to say you aren’t.
I am on WIWIKAU and keep seeing private parents on there complaining their children are being discriminated against if state educated children get contextual offers for uni.
Children educated privately are OBVIOUSLY going to gain grade elevation in their exam results compared to state educated - this should be taken into account. A grade 8 from a private school is going to be much easier to obtain than a grade 8 from a state school. My children (in state schools) had to contend with desks being thrown, fire alarms being set off, pupils verbally abusing the teacher, students running in and out of fire escapes in nearly every lesson. They hardly received any teaching.
2 of my children have SEN and got virtually no interventions.
Get all those children who are motivated, and have parents interested in their education, into state schools and the quality of state education will improve. If nothing else it will at least level the playing field.

Did they all pay the same in 1983 then? I'm maybe not understanding that graph.

I can't help wondering what state schools would look like now if their line on the graph had risen significantly higher and faster.

They are perpetuating the inequality.

I’m not sure why this comes as a surprise. Your figures show the “average” and, therefore, includes schools with very expensive things such as Olympic size pools, multiple sports courts, grounds to maintain etc. These are “nice to haves” rather than educational necessities. In addition, costs of running a private school are higher because they can’t reclaim input VAT, whereas state schools can.

Is there a reason why you haven’t pointed out the disparity across state schools?

“In 2021/22, education spending per pupil at schools in England was highest in Inner London, with approximately 8,860 British pounds spent per pupil in this area. By contrast, pupils in the East of England had an expenditure per head of 6,049 pounds, which was the lowest in this academic year.”

https://www.statista.com/statistics/381745/education-expenditure-per-pupil-england-region-uk/#statisticContainer

Rather than concentrating on a sector which educates 6% of children, perhaps we should be questioning why there is such disparity in the sector which educates the other 94%. Perhaps this disparity is part of the reason why some parents choose the private sector; because not everyone lives in an area with well funded, highly performing, state schools.

Is your point that the gap is widening so we need to spend more on state schools to close the gap a bit?

There has always been a difference, but its bigger now so its even more unequal.

Our state primary has a therapy dog in twice a week and it is provided in a targeted way to those classes that need it. The local private has one there every day, belongs to a member of staff. Our state primary swims at the private pool for a few weeks in year 5. The private schools provides weekly swimming from year 1. That is what the parents there pay for.

Supporting through a degree and a masters also adds up

Well yes. Sometimes I think about how much we didn’t spend for dc to get into a very good degree. And how state got him there

As for therapy dogs in pp, dc state primary has one