Nearly £9000 more spent on private secondary pupils than state pupils

[SluggyMuggy]

Research from University College London that found £12,200 a year is the average spending on a privately educated primary pupil, compared with £4,800 on a state pupil. For secondary, it’s £15,000 compared with £6,200.

This entrenches inequality as private pupils are given far more resources towards their education.

It's totally clear to most people that the government needs to spend more on state education. But, where will this money come from? You only have to read a few threads on here, about how many people are not net contributors (no, not a UC bashing comment - many people who don't claim UC still aren't net contributors) and the cost of running the NHS etc. to see that the Treasury has limited income and vast expenses. I think everyone would agree that state schools need more investment. But where from?

Why is no one campaigning for more equality within the state system; the system which affects 94% of children? Why are private schools the first to be questioned? If the state system was sorted out so that funding was equal, so that different types of school were available depending on a pupil’s strengths, and where every child could access a great school which suited them regardless of their postcode, fewer people would want to use the private sector.

https://www.barker-associates.co.uk/news/what-schools-need-to-know-about-funding-eligibility/#:~:text=Factors%20such%20as%20the%20geographic,state%2Dfunded%20schools%20in%20England.

State school funding in any event is really complicated. The best heads and academies make sure they apply for as much as they can. Whilst DCs primary got a very meagre amount per child the head knew how to recruit the best SEN teacher to get a better chance of SEN funding and knew how to get capital funding in. It’s complicated. A successful state school is run well financially as well.

If you have experienced one state school, you have experienced one state school. If you have experienced one private school, you have experienced one private school.

I never understand any posters who have DC with SEN in the state sector who are critical of private school parents who paid to make sure their DC with SEN may be better taken care of. That is cognitive dissonance too!

I am a relatively well off state parent who is massively involved in both my DCs education and has volunteered extensively. I know loads of people in my exact position. We need more funding for specialist staff in SEN support, behaviour, mental health and far more sport built into the curriculum. Teachers also need support and a voice. Don’t know the answer for problem parents though. Maybe levelling up educational values there somehow, surely some clever politician can come up with something.

Yes state schools need more money. So our taxes need to go up? Government needs to spend less somewhere else, more on education? It's all a bit obvious no?

What needs addressing is youth mh and education for children with SEN.
Once the antisocial behavior displayed in state schools is resolved, parents with the financial means will send them.

I am saying it is possible to have excellent state education- the system just needs to sort itself out. There are no private secondary schools apart from one in Northern Ireland.

So what do YOU suggest is done about it?

@Janedoe82 I am thrilled your dd got a great education in Belfast. Regrettably we didn't live in Belfast and DH's job was London centric.

Well off people on MN like to pretend that anyone can be well off if they work hard enough, while at the same time spending lots of money on their children to ensure they too are well off. It is a type of cognitive dissonance.

Exactly. At least stop pretending you aren't buying inequality.

My thought, hire more and better teachers and support staff and reduce class sizes especially in struggling schools. Smaller class sizes makes everything easier; SEN, behaviour and outcomes.

My DD claims teacher mental health is also a factor. She claims the most stressed out teachers produce the worst behaviour in the class so the cycle continues. Some DC literally pick up on teacher poor mental health and act out and the stress is infectious.

Yes, well that was your choice. I left Scotland for cheap good education and know many others who have done the same.

This is why universities are right to give contextual offers.

We need to address it but by making state schools better, rather than taking away independent schools. To do otherwise is a race to the bottom.

Where the UK has got lost is by insisting of high levels of qualifications rather than providing an excellent standard of education. Too many people nowadays are well qualified but not well educated.

I agree.

Or your only one

Ah, you see DH chose to leave the North for the career opportunities in his field. Happily they paid for private education

Whilst I was impressed when I visited Belfast, it would get a little crowded if we all moved there and let's not forget that Ireland's biggest export is not Guinness but its people.

Quite a few parents have made a conscious decision to stop at one child so they can afford private education.

You can make up for a state education but out of school hours you'll be running around taking the children to sporting events to round out their education. So you'll be freezing on the sidelines watching football, rugby, netball, hockey, sweating at swimming pools. Doing, ballet, drama, rainbows, beavers, cubs, brownies, scouts. Never mind DofE. Then there's music of course.

It's no walk in the park.

Yes. This comes as no surprise, surely?

Parents earn money, pay tax on that money (which in part funds state schools) and then they spend their taxed money on educating their kids privately. It’s hardly a crime.

My children started off at state school, we spent our savings on some absolutely epic holidays which were really educational for our kids. When I realised my kids were not being educated at their school, because their teachers were focusing their time on the kids who were struggling and had behavioural issues, I moved them to private school so that they would get the education that they (and all children) deserve. The state system has limited resources and understandably used those resources for those most in need. The stats the OP quotes are misleading in suggesting that all kids in the state system have the same amount spent on them.

To afford the private education I moved from part time work to full time work so I actually pay more tax while using fewer resources.

Why are we made to feel like we’ve committed some kind of crime by making this difficult choice?

Well it wouldn't be Guinness as it is made in Dublin- a separate country.
Also there is now net migration into Northern Ireland post cease fire, people are now staying and coming back due to the fact it is now a really good place to live. Perhaps do some research rather than being so smug.

Oh God, that poor kid. No pressure mate, but all our eggs are in your basket.

What a strange comment. There are lots of families with only children (privately educated or otherwise). Do you think all these families have “all their eggs in one basket”? It’s an odd way to look at children.

I'm sure that there are lots on only children who are privately educated. I imagine the number of only children who remained singletons, simply so that their parents could send them to private school, is a much smaller cohort.

Similar budgets though, maybe even more in total in state schools, as there are two or three times as many pupils. I would love a more nuanced look at budget and spend. Of course I know it is not as simple as that, and the demographic of the children are very different, but the issue that comes up again and again on teaching forums is bad behaviour, and that starts way before school.

In a slightly different note, but part of the same argument. French kids get €10 per child for meals, parents pay around €4/5 towards that. They get three courses, homemade, they are table served, with china plates and proper knives and forks. There is no choice, they eat what they are given, fresh "real" food, little waste as it is proper food, and no messing about. I was so impressed.