Urgent handhold please. Lost my temper with ASD teen and meltdown.

[CalmingVibes]

DS14 is ASD and is just impossible at the moment. I know some of it is normal teenage stuff but it is just an awful living situation for all of us. I think there’s some depression going on and I’m trying to get him help for this but he rejects it.

His mood is all over the place. One minute he’s ok , the next he’s screaming blue murder. I don’t get a chance to reason with him because he screams over the top of me or shuts me down. If I leave him to it then go back to him , he shuts down and refuses to talk about things or let me explain so he’s left with lots of negative thoughts and feelings . He’s always been like this .

He’s a good kid generally but his overall presentation towards us is just so negative and I’m honestly at the end of my rope with it. Everything is always an issue.

Earlier, the cat waited at the door meowing to be let out. I was upstairs cleaning and all three DC were downstairs. The two younger boys were eating. DS1 was just watching his iPad. I shouted down to ask DS1 to let the cat out. The door is right next to him.

He text me saying “it’s not my turn” . I told him again a bit more crossly, just let the cat out . It is your turn (he always pulls this one). Again, he ignored me. I had my hands full and told him again, that if I had to come down to let the cat out myself, he’s lost his iPad (because he won’t do anything when he’s on it). By this point the cat was getting frustrated but DS1 still sat there so younger DS got down from the table and let the cat out.

I had to come down and I told DS1 no more iPad because he seems to think he’s devoid from helping at all when he’s on it. Cue the “you all hate me , you’re against me , you’re so nasty”.

I tried to explain that I expect him to help and that I do not like the way he often refuses to help in the hope his younger siblings will get frustrated and do it for him. He would not listen, shot me down and was screaming blue murder at me at how much I hate him and how nasty I am . It’s the same narrative every miserable day when things don’t go his way . When things were quieter, I offered him a hug. He screamed at me saying no I’m nasty and blame him for everything. All of this over letting the bloody cat out. I obviously know there’s more to it, but it’s every time he’s asked to do something he doesn’t want to. He becomes rude, sarcastic and mean.

DH brought him a drink in and asked if he wanted a glass. DS1 now in a stinking mood was rude to him too. DH got cross . I got more cross.

Then it escalated. I am fed up of being spoken to like shit from him. I lost my temper completely and DS is screaming at me. It was chaotic. He then put his foot through the door and I just saw red. I went ballistic and threatened to call the police. I asked him to leave the room so I could fix the door, more refusals and more screaming.

He screamed about how nasty I am, how I’ve made him the way he is. Always the same narrative for as long as he’s been alive. I have been broken by him many times. I screamed back that he was also nasty and destructive (not my finest moment).

I love him more than anything but he is such a difficult person to be around. Negative,
argumentative, sees the bad in everything. It is draining. This is the second huge meltdown he’s had in the last few days. I know something must be going on but he won’t let me near to help. He says what he wants to me and then shuts anything I try to say down by screaming over the top of me.

He now thinks he’s done nothing at all wrong and it’s all me. He’s upset about me threatening to call the police as he “never did anything”. He doesn’t understand why I’m annoyed about the broken door , because it’s his door. He thinks I hate him but won’t let me help change that narrative. Often, his perspective of a situation is so far in to the negative, it can’t be challenged.

I now feel awful and don’t know how to move forward. Has anyone else been in this situation?

“DC need to realise that if one of your parents tells you to do something, you do it. No question, no arguing back, no nonsense.”

my dh and i tried this for a long long time with our ds. School tried it. That strategy led to a million horrendous meltdowns, violence (inc threatening us with kitchen knives), loads of damage to home and belongings, opening the car door on motorway, school refusal etc etc etc. I was so scared for his future.
he ended up in a special school where they had necessary boundaries but spent the vast majority of the time supporting the children to learn how to cope with the world. We changed our approach at home. Just like the poster who used the analogy of being scared of flying, it’s a step by step process, on the edge of the child’s comfort zone. Gradually they learn what they need to learn. You don’t give up even when it feels like there’s no progress cos looking back now I so proud of what we achieved together and incredibly proud of the person he has become.
He managed to go to mainstream secondary (with support) and then mainstream 6th form college with no support. He gets brilliant parents evening feedback, he has a girlfriend, her parents really like him, he looks after himself (cooks for self, goes to gym regularly, does homework/revision) but he still needs help getting out of the house for college in the mornings. He will still panic (and be rude to us) if the tshirt he wanted to wear isn’t clean etc.
like I said, he’s having a year out before uni so we can help him learn those life skills he still needs but I know he will learn them fine with our support.

@Oncetwicethreetimesalady this sounds amazingly positive. I would be emphasising to him that if he cooks; he cleans up after himself. That if he wants clean clothes, he plans ahead and washes them in good time. All of these activities are absolutely within the capabilities of a person who can pass their A levels. They are simple tasks. If he can complete his homework on time, study for a test, he can learn to think “I will wear my favourite T shirt on Friday, I will make sure it’s clean for then.” It’s not your job to do that for him now. And any stroppiness should be directed at himself - not you.

Your ds may still only be thinking about how the world functions “for him” - he’s learned that extreme threats only get him so far, but ultimately he’s still bullying you in your own home to do.

My db would do all these things - he got a brilliant result in the exams he could be bothered to study for, he got a good degree. He could cook brilliantly. But he’d leave mess and refuse to lift a finger at home because fundamentally there was no change in attitude.

He was, ultimately and devastatingly, openly contemptuous of my dm who he saw as a sap. Right to the day she died, he treated her like someone he could discard and make demands of. I remember he came to stay when she had a serious accident and he even left her making up the spare beds and sent her out to buy his favourite foods she had ‘neglected’ to buy (she was recovering from a joint replacement).

I am not trying to denigrate the excellent work you’ve done with your ds so far but it’s respect you need to work on. Respect is the key to everything.

Thanks for all of the advice, each and every post has been valuable.

I have sat DS1 down today to talk to him whilst DH has taken the younger two swimming. I asked him if he understood what happened yesterday and why it escalated. I apologised for losing my temper and explained that as I am also human, the cumulative criticism and the way he spoke to me meant I also lost my temper.

DS1 was able to explain that he should have let the cat out and that there was no real reason why he didn’t , other than he didn’t like being told to. He apologised. He also said that he is going to try much harder not to scream and shout at us when angry.

I explained that the escalation was also partly my fault because I got so wound up about the fact I couldn’t get a word in without being screamed at (ironically to try and defuse the situation), that I also didn’t handle it the best way and that I should have walked away and waited until we could talk like this morning. I also re iterated though that he can not under any circumstances lash out and damage things when angry. A learning curve for us both.

It seems he also had a few worries, so my instinct was right that there was more to it.

DH is heading out this afternoon to replace to the door. DS1 and I are just going to relax as I think we’re both deflated after yesterday.

Thank you all for listening. I have nobody else on earth I can tell about this so your support has been greatly received.

He should also be required to apologise to your other dc. Why should they put up with his shit? I am so angry on their behalf, living through this. Damaging.

Can he contribute to the door replacement, either with money or by helping your DH do it?

@SpringKitten Yes he’s going to apologise to other DC too. The younger two are also ND and have their share of explosive meltdowns too. It’s a very very tough situation and I’m trying my best.

I think you've spectacularly missed my point. A few people have agreed with my underlying point.

@ArseholeCatIsABlackAndWhiteCat Yes he’s got the tool box out ready to help DH with the door.

I did consider making him pay to replace it, but felt that I would be punishing him for the meltdown (he really is a lovely kid and just lashed out in anger, he’s very upset about the door). I think making him help to fix it , is a good compromise .’

It's a great compromise and consequence. I suggested both, as for some kids the manual part could actually be impossible/extremely difficult and have the potential of causing another meltdown. I believe seeing the work and time involved in replacing the door is actually a good thing.

I'm glad you had a good conversation today, not just to clear the air and reinforce boundaries but also that you found out some of the things that were bothering him.

Try and remember this next time, if you can. You're only human.

No one is assuming anything, every parent has to sort the can't from the won't, that's basic stuff.

Kids with ASD find certain things more difficult, therefore their 'can't' list is likely to be different.

Parents also have to reflect on what they are saying they 'won't' do too, some parents won't let things calm down, they won't put in place different systems to avoid arguments, they won't make sensible allowances for their children's genuine needs.

OP honestly you sound brilliant. I think your ds is in safe hands.

That doesn't sound like a meltdown it sounds like a temper tantrum and should be treated as such. Tell him not to speak to you like that and if he continues just say no and walk away. It takes 2 to argue.

We all lose our temper occasionally so don't worry about that, just go and tell him you're sorry about the way you behaved and explain why it happened. It isn't unreasonable for you to ask him to let the cat out.

Your follow up messages sound like you're doing brilliantly in the circumstances - I find it hard enough with one ND and one NT child (and my NT one is older, fairly independent and pretty laid back), managing three ND people's competing needs at once must be incredibly challenging.

Ask your GP or a psychiatrist if he is under CAMHS about PDA - Pathological Demand Avoidance. It's often co-morbid with ASD. I don't think they actually diagnose it as such but I could be wrong. My daughter is ASD and fits the profile of PDA so our local CAMHS signed us up for parenting classes on how to manage this behaviour. I think it was called NVR - Non Violent Resistance parenting. It was a complete game changer for us to even hear about PDA and how we approach our daughter.

I used to be very shouty and dole out consequences for bad behaviour etc but now I just don't shout anymore and traditional punishments just don't work. I did have to change my entire mindset and it's hard work but it's even harder work managing melt downs and such.

You say DS is 14 so he must be year 8 or so? We had a lot of drama with behaviour in secondary school, mainly really ramped up in year 8, which we never had in primary. Hormones, social difficulties, new friendships, school work gets harder.... it all builds up and combined with the ASD things can get quite difficult. If you suspect depression it makes it even worse...

When you say traditional punishments don't work, what do you do then if the child does something seriously wrong for a consequence?

I thought this NVR thing was just for children who were violent. Is that not right?

So, traditional to me would be child does something wrong and as a parent I shout and tell them off and punishment would be take something away (usually a phone for a teenager). I don't shout. I calm myself down and wait until things settle down and have a talk with them about what happened, what we might've have done differently, how we can do things differently next time. 5 years ago pre ASD diagnosis, I would've laughed at myself as it's totally what I would've call weak parenting and letting kids get away with things. But with an ASD/PDA child, the parenting that comes naturally to most of us just doesn't work. You can do it but you soon realise how pointless it is AND you have to deal with meltdowns.

NVR covers physically violent behaviour but also verbally abusive behaviour and even unpleasant behaviour that's above and beyond the "norm". I do think it is most beneficial for a child who is physically violent but verbal abuse can be horrific and it covers how to manage it. \

Just speaking out of my own experiences and I am sure others have had different experiences as ASD and associated things all present differently and on such different scales.

I don't have any advice but wanted to empathise as my situation is very similar. DS1 is ASD and is so negative all the time, it gets exhausting. He won't respond to simple requests for things I ask him to do either, especially if it's a rota related thing and it's not his turn. He also struggles with transitioning between activities.
Simple things often get blown out of proportion and I've lost my temper so often recently as nothing we do/try seems to work.

Be kind to yourself OP, you're only human and this ongoing situation would try anyone's patience x

@Mustthinkofausername I do stay calm already. Very rare I don't. Doing all this doesn't work.

What has NVR taught you about the challenging behaviour and how to deal with it?

The cat doesn't understand turns or fairness, all he knows is that he wants to go out and now one of the humans is absolutely terrifying him by screaming and smashing the place up.

Would it be possible to reframe things for the cat's benefit as outside turns and favours because the cat isn't a human? It didn't matter how awful DD was to me (and by God, she could be horrendous), she would do whatever was necessary for the cat's wellbeing and would make sure he was never caught in the crossfire. OK, from her point of view it may have that the cat wasn't the one being a dickhead, but keeping animal welfare separate from human things worked pretty well for us.

I think you are doing really fantastically.

In terms of whether to get him to contribute towards replacing the door, think of it like this; it's not really a punishment to make him pay, the door costs money to replace. If he lived in his own house, and had lashed out in anger and damaged something, he would either need to live with it damaged, or replace it. And if he was renting, then he would need to replace it or have it taken from his security deposit.

So in a way, by bearing the cost of replacing it yourselves, you are shielding him from a consequence of his actions, or doing him a favour by replacing his door. That is sometimes the right thing to do - but I would try to frame it in this way when making a decision, rather than seeing it that it would be a punishment if he had to cover (any of) the cost himself.

If he can already see that breaking a door is unacceptable and so sees the value in learning better emotional regulation skills and coping mechanisms to walk away and/or calm down when he is feeling so angry that he wants to break things, and he appreciates the fact that you and DH have used money from your household budget and DH's time and effort in replacing the door, then this can be fine. If he does not realise this, then bailing him out every time might leave him with a shock when he does one day damage something which belongs to somebody else and they do expect him to replace it. That's a balancing act which you need to work out because on the one hand, yes you want to make an impression and ensure that he understands, on the other hand, hammering something home TOO hard can have a counterproductive effect, especially when (as can be the case with ASD) the behaviour is likely exacerbated by underlying stress/anxiety in general, and/or the child is more sensitive to perceived criticism (which, again, is more likely with ASD). It can be that the message "we love, support and accept you even in your darkest moments" is more important than the cost of the door. You have to weigh this up, case by case, family by family, child by child.

The idea that you never hold them accountable for actions within meltdown, and the idea that you always hold them accountable for everything they do, IMO both of these are too rigid. There has to be space for "it depends".

@SpringKitten totally agree asd, pda and adhd (my ds has diagnosis of all of these!) is not an excuse for violent and abusive behaviour. The biggest reason we were desperate to change things was because of the effect ds’ outbursts were having on our dd. We knew we had to protect her from it and all the conventional parenting we’d tried only made it far far worse for everyone but her in particular.
I guess we changed to something like a non-violent resistance type of strategy. So for example, we didn’t shout at him when he was in a meltdown, we would restrain him when necessary. Any damage would need to be cleared up and/or paid for later. But there wouldn’t be a big lecture with us standing over him wagging our fingers. It’s just be calm and logical explaining that these were the outcomes.
in the end it seems to have worked pretty well. It’s not perfect of course but now when he gets out of line, we don’t even have to say or do anything, just stay calm. He catches on to his own unreasonable behaviour very quickly and stops and apologises. It’s been internalised. He knows he has stuff to learn yet, and I feel confident he will put the effort in. He is very appreciative of the things I do for him and of me as a person, not just his mum. I’m pretty certain he is respectful and polite when he’s out in the world, his 6th form teachers always say so.
this is a kid who couldn’t stay in mainstream primary, he was at the far end of the spectrum in terms of behaviour back then, so much so that local authority fully funded his placement in private special school.

I come from the same kind of background as @SpringKitten and I know a few other NT siblings in the same boat. just want to chime in and say that I resonate with every word Kitten is saying. Us NT siblings get glossed over or shamed for speaking out about the abuse we endure. I’ve had it on here before - “that’s so disablist, you need to support him in life, what if your children are also ”.

Permissive parenting of my brother did massive damage, not only to him but to us other siblings. It took years of therapy for me to work through. And when that all the time growing up, I was told that this male didn’t mean to hurt me/ I had to forgive him when he said sorry (and went straight back to doing what he was doing)/ i was in the wrong for cutting him off - well, you can imagine how that fucks you up for future relationships and makes you very vulnerable. I was always told that this is just him, home is his safe space - well, home certainly wasn’t my safe space because of him. I looked over my shoulder constantly.

OP seems to have a handle on things so I guess this is more for the casual readers who might be in this situation. Protect your NT children. It’s so easy to just force the expectations on them. Always to forgive, always to make allowances, always to support the autistic kid right through their adult life. Don’t let it happen.

It was mainly stuff like not shouting in the heat of the moment. Remaining calm otherwise we’d escalate each other. Not hashing out the issue when things were unsettled but waiting until things were calm and then talking about it. When you’re in the throes of a crisis it’s hard to remember the basics but the classes helped and you do it in a group so you’re sharing stories with others going through similar things and you pick up hints and tips from them too. I might not be explaining very well.

We do ask for things to be done around the house and some stuff gets done. Some don’t. I pick my battles. We focus on the wins and let it go when things don’t happen. Often I’ll ask for something and if it’s ignored I’ll ask again and then do it myself. Over the years things have improved a lot. A little bit of maturity goes a long way. Some stuff gets done voluntarily now and then I make sure to say thank you and that I appreciate the effort. Positive reinforcement works for us and this seems to increase
the positive behaviours we want.

If he struggles to let a cat out then how on earth is he going to cope with adult life?

It’s disheartening to read how many posters think entire families should walk on egg shells to affirm one autistic member.

These are real people, they don’t deserve to live in misery and fear because of one person’s autism. Sorry

This with bells on.