Urgent handhold please. Lost my temper with ASD teen and meltdown.

[CalmingVibes]

DS14 is ASD and is just impossible at the moment. I know some of it is normal teenage stuff but it is just an awful living situation for all of us. I think there’s some depression going on and I’m trying to get him help for this but he rejects it.

His mood is all over the place. One minute he’s ok , the next he’s screaming blue murder. I don’t get a chance to reason with him because he screams over the top of me or shuts me down. If I leave him to it then go back to him , he shuts down and refuses to talk about things or let me explain so he’s left with lots of negative thoughts and feelings . He’s always been like this .

He’s a good kid generally but his overall presentation towards us is just so negative and I’m honestly at the end of my rope with it. Everything is always an issue.

Earlier, the cat waited at the door meowing to be let out. I was upstairs cleaning and all three DC were downstairs. The two younger boys were eating. DS1 was just watching his iPad. I shouted down to ask DS1 to let the cat out. The door is right next to him.

He text me saying “it’s not my turn” . I told him again a bit more crossly, just let the cat out . It is your turn (he always pulls this one). Again, he ignored me. I had my hands full and told him again, that if I had to come down to let the cat out myself, he’s lost his iPad (because he won’t do anything when he’s on it). By this point the cat was getting frustrated but DS1 still sat there so younger DS got down from the table and let the cat out.

I had to come down and I told DS1 no more iPad because he seems to think he’s devoid from helping at all when he’s on it. Cue the “you all hate me , you’re against me , you’re so nasty”.

I tried to explain that I expect him to help and that I do not like the way he often refuses to help in the hope his younger siblings will get frustrated and do it for him. He would not listen, shot me down and was screaming blue murder at me at how much I hate him and how nasty I am . It’s the same narrative every miserable day when things don’t go his way . When things were quieter, I offered him a hug. He screamed at me saying no I’m nasty and blame him for everything. All of this over letting the bloody cat out. I obviously know there’s more to it, but it’s every time he’s asked to do something he doesn’t want to. He becomes rude, sarcastic and mean.

DH brought him a drink in and asked if he wanted a glass. DS1 now in a stinking mood was rude to him too. DH got cross . I got more cross.

Then it escalated. I am fed up of being spoken to like shit from him. I lost my temper completely and DS is screaming at me. It was chaotic. He then put his foot through the door and I just saw red. I went ballistic and threatened to call the police. I asked him to leave the room so I could fix the door, more refusals and more screaming.

He screamed about how nasty I am, how I’ve made him the way he is. Always the same narrative for as long as he’s been alive. I have been broken by him many times. I screamed back that he was also nasty and destructive (not my finest moment).

I love him more than anything but he is such a difficult person to be around. Negative,
argumentative, sees the bad in everything. It is draining. This is the second huge meltdown he’s had in the last few days. I know something must be going on but he won’t let me near to help. He says what he wants to me and then shuts anything I try to say down by screaming over the top of me.

He now thinks he’s done nothing at all wrong and it’s all me. He’s upset about me threatening to call the police as he “never did anything”. He doesn’t understand why I’m annoyed about the broken door , because it’s his door. He thinks I hate him but won’t let me help change that narrative. Often, his perspective of a situation is so far in to the negative, it can’t be challenged.

I now feel awful and don’t know how to move forward. Has anyone else been in this situation?

But it is such a simple request, I can’t fathom how I’m supposed to get him to live in the real world whilst also meeting his needs. I can’t manage every tiny change in his day.

You can't 'get him' to live in the real world by starting arguments at home.

I think you're stuck in the mindset that if you are strict his ASD will go away. You're creating arguments in your own home, which will make it harder for him to learn to manage the ASD in the wider world as his base stress will be higher.

No one else in the real world would escalate the situation as you did, they'd shrug and moan behind his back!

Honestly give yourself a break! He has no right to act like that and If he does, he needs to know that it upsets/ angers others.

You were human OP. Give yourself a break.

He does need to learn to control his anger. He's being abusive, don't ask me to do something I don't want to do or I'll shout and smash things up. Mumsnet is littered with adult women putting up with this in their relationships. Don't put up with it now.! Yes a)d makes life more difficult for him but it's not a get out of jail free card.
Could you spend some quality time teaching him how to style his hair himself? Pick a time when you're nit in a rush?

There is this great book called When Your Kids Push Your Buttons. Much of it will be irrelevant for you because this is quite genuinely challenging behaviour and there's not much need to analyse why it riles you up, but there is some great stuff in there which I found incredibly valuable about when/how to hand responsibility off to the child. It's basically advice about how to hold a boundary about what you will/won't do - which is really all you can control anyway. I had this idea that boundaries are supposed to be about somehow forcing some outcome, but that isn't really a boundary, that is more control.

I also agree with Ross Greene but I find a lot of people struggle with this because you have to get your head around what the book is actually suggesting that you do. The title is a bit misleading because it doesn't explain anything about how to deal with the explosive/aggressive behaviour directly, it's more about approaching scenarios which typically LEAD to explosions and figuring out what's the hard bit they can't get past and then working out a solution to that which works for everyone. So for example, you could have a Ross Greene CPS conversation about turn taking. The other thing that people struggle with in CPS I think is that you have to start with understanding the child's perspective. So for the turn taking example, the first and foremost aim would be finding out what it is about turn taking that he finds so difficult, what it is about it that he feels is unfair, without jumping in to give your own perspective before you genuinely understand his.

Also anything which explains the three-brain-state model. Annoyingly they all have different names for it, but you'll recognise it if you've read or heard any of it before - it's about whether they are leading with their prefrontal cortex (calm, rational, open to negotiation, ready to learn etc) or their limbic system (emotional, verbal lashing out, predictable "scripts", argumentative) or their brain stem (aggressive, physical, survival, fight or flight, meltdown, shutdown) - and this is all to do with how much threat their nervous system is detecting. And crucially, yours. Because when you "see red" and go ballistic that's the limbic system kicking in - I found it helpful to understand all of this. Basically once someone's in that state there is no point engaging with them with the aim of trying to change their mind, get them to back down, get them to see your side, get them to see they are wrong etc. It won't work. The ONLY thing you can do is either disengage or de-escalate.

I'm not suggesting any of this is easy or that it works all of the time and I haven't had a challenging teen. But these are things I have found helpful to understand my ADHD teen and my younger one (likely ND) who is in a more physical/challenging age but not the same, as I am still much bigger than he is.

@qwertyqwertyqwertyqwerty I didn’t start it, this has been going on since he was tiny. I appreciate your input and your viewpoint, but no I do not think his ASD will go away. I’m also not doing him any good will by letting him avoid everything in life that will upset him. I asked him to let the cat out , not go to a party.

some of the very useful unconventional strategies I’ve used over the years are refusing to take their behaviour personally, this is asd (and in my Ds’ case adhd too). Not sweating the small stuff. Keeping tone of voice low, gentle and steady. verbalising the reasons he might be getting distressed. So, “I know your hair being right is really really important to you and I know you’re stressed about going to school today. Being a teenager and being at secondary school is very stressful, I understand. Hair doesn’t always do what we want it to do, it’s frustrating. If we work together we can get this sorted. Maybe we can play about with it at the weekend and you can really practice getting it right by yourself. I’ll help you. I know we can sort this together cos we’re a great team”
action replay (especially useful when they’ve been rude) just lightly ask them to repeat it marginally more politely or gently. For my Ds humour has always been a massive help, I know it won’t work for all asd kids.
realising that ultimatums and traditional consequences always end in tears and tantrums so save those only for the most extreme cases. X-box for my Ds was the thing he did to decompress. Taking it away is taking away a coping strategy which doesn’t help in a stressful situation.
a better “consequence” for my Ds was to discuss how we could better manage a similar situation in the future. So, re letting the cat out, we’d figure out alternative tasks he could do and that he could choose when to do them- usually make it into a routine. It can be a symbolic task rather than a real one too so it doesn’t matter how useful it actually is, just that he has a responsibility of some sort but also that it’s easy for him and he can feel successful in it.
Also, remembering that an NT teen would often be a little shit too and give you cheek about letting the cat out.

@BertieBotts Thank you very helpful and I’ll certainly do some research in to this.

@RedHelenB Yes, I agree. I sometimes feel like I’m expected to just give in to his every whim because he’s autistic. He’s a lovely kid but other people in the real adult world would not accept this behaviour so why should we?

Thank you to everyone else too.

I understand your frustration..i really do...i have a grandson whom i have 3-4x week who is on the ASD..high functioning. I had to put myself in his head let's say, i realized that it wasn't that he didn't want to do it but that he needed transition time and warning...so quick decision do now jobs were off the list tbh...he needed to do warning jobs as i call them...gives him some notice that its coming.. eg another 15 minutes (give precise time with clock he can see) on xbox then its time to insert job...then remind him 5 minutes before to wind it up. Thats still teaching him responsibility and preparing for outside world in the long run, its just not on your time amd tbh thats ASD.

Good grief! You were pushed beyond the limit. He should have just let cat out.

This is the advice to listen to. She's a mum of an autistic teen who is slaying it - they're both slaying it.

Also fully concur with PP who suggested the Explosive Child. It's a really helpful framework.

Honestly OP, you are only human! However, I do get how you feel.

My DS1 has always had quite a defiant way, and his very early teens were a bit of a nightmare - it was his way or no way. I'm not proud of it, but I lost it with him a few times as he just pushed and pushed and I said stuff that I look back at now and regret.

Interestingly, he's NT but his younger brother is ND, I do often wonder if there's some diversity there though.

He's now 20 and generally a joy, it's like he's grown up so can handle most things, but he still has a bit of a defiant/stubborn streak about him, he just thankfully doesn't lose his temper anymore

You are right that in the real world he needs to cope with transitions.

However that doesn't mean that the best way to get him into that position is to demand he cope with transitions.

Imagine someone who is scared of flying.

They can do a course. In the course, at first they meet the pilot and the pilot talks to them about flying and answers their questions.

Then they go to an airport and explore it and don't get on a plane.

Then they get on a plane

Then they get on a plane and it does a short flight.

The way to deal with this is gradual desensitisation.

So if your child doesn't cope with transitions now, then your initial response is to remove as many unnecessary transitions as possible and support him through the necessary ones.

For the necessary ones, give a 5 minute, 3 min and 1 min warning. Praise him when he manages the transition successfully.

And then just like the flying course, as he experiences successful transitions and his stress goes down he will manage them better.

At the moment you are doing the equivalent of dragging him on a 12 hour overnight flight when he is scared of flying. Stop. Take the gradual approach. It really is more successful.

Absolutely get this OP - I could have written it about DD15. We tried allsorts but what has made a massive difference is NVR ( non violent resistance). It’s funny because some of what you do on the course is obvious; it’s just when you’re in the situation, you can’t think straight. DH & I have been doing it since early January. A couple of face to face sessions then online. Honestly, I can’t tell you how much calmer things are. I also gave up drinking which has meant I can deal with DD15’s extreme moods much better.

Fellow ASD parent here and I'm sorry but I don't stand for the "it's not my turn" mindset. ASD or not, DC need to realise that if one of your parents tells you to do something, you do it. No question, no arguing back, no nonsense.
I'm not saying I disregard my DC's ASD but that in this context it's irrelevant how 'uncomfortable' it makes them because it's a responsibility. Simple as that. When they grow up, kids with ASD will (hopefully) still have responsibilities like every other adult and they need to learn to do things they're not 100% comfortable with in that exact moment, including letting the cat out whilst watching something.
Making adjustments on account of my DC's Autism and changing my approach to reduce distress/sensory overload/make things easier for them to understand is one thing, but ASD certainly doesn't mean a free pass to never do anything that he/she doesn't want to do.

With respect to letting the cat out, teens with ASD are known to struggle with transitions. If your teen with ASD is in the cat letting out rota then by definition he will be asked to transition at a time that suits the cat. That's likely to lead to trouble. You might be better off getting him to contribute to the household in a more predictable, routine way that he can do at the same time every day, and take him off the cat rota.

This! Perfect example of an adjustment. Still teaches responsibility but in a way that suits his Autism. I will adopt this approach myself I think. 👍🏻

Omg! Loads of people would of reacted EXACTLY like the OP did, if not worse!

"No one else in the real world" ..... your not in the real world, what was the point in saying that to the OP? To try and make her feel bad?

My DD is 9 and has ASD and I would of told her off for not letting the cat out and I would of taken her iPad too.

My DS has ADHD and will kick off if he has to do any sort of chores.... he gets told off for shouting at me and he loses privileges if he doesnt help around the house...... he's 7

And the OP wasnt starting an argument either. Her son did that. Not her.

I'm autistic and have ADHD and I'd of been really annoyed at my teenager acting like that. If they had broken my door I'm telling you now theyd never see their iPad again.

Me and my children are all ND and there is no way on earth I'd let any of mine get away with behaving like that. Ever.

You have misunderstood I think - I mean each child only has one mum, other people don't threaten to remove iPads etc.

There is no other relationship that has the same dynamic as parent and child. So parent/child arguments don't actually help prep for the outside world.

This is an excellent post

Me and my children are all Nd and whilst I will make accomidations for their sensory needs and when they get overwhelmed I will not make accomidations for responsibilities they have

All these people advising that the OP shouldnt of asked him or to remove it from his chores.... what's their advice when hes a full grown adult man having meltdowns, smashing things up because he doesnt want to do somthing?

Being ND really doesnt give people a free pass not to do things they dont want to do. They HAVE to learn to adjust, the real world will not accommodate them like a parent will and they have to start adapting as teens or they will struggle as adults

Only thing I would advise is to try not to "teach a lesson" in the middle of a meltdown. I know it's impossible sometimes, but let it run it's course, then have the conversation when he is calm and settled.They're not ready to listen or take anything in and situations just escalate.

It is best to accept what he can do, what he can't, at this age. He will mature and your expectations will mature alongside.

If you ask someone to do something you know they will find difficult - in this case breaking off to do a job when not their turn - then you are choosing to start a problem.

It'd be easier for your whole family to just pick really important battles.

Another poster expressed it better than me, so I will copy their words: With respect to letting the cat out, teens with ASD are known to struggle with transitions. If your teen with ASD is in the cat letting out rota then by definition he will be asked to transition at a time that suits the cat. That's likely to lead to trouble. You might be better off getting him to contribute to the household in a more predictable, routine way that he can do at the same time every day, and take him off the cat rota.

Totally agree with this, for any child whether ND or NT.

It is best to accept what he can do, what he can't, at this age. He will mature and your expectations will mature alongside.

That's assuming it's a can't rather than won't.

I have teens with asd. My expectations on how they treat me, how they talk to me are that they do not bully me . If he didn't like how I did his hair, he can do it himself . My kids don't get to talk to me like I'm shit. Actions have consequences, if they are like that to me, I'm backing off .

I’m really heartened by the posts saying ASD doesn’t give you a free pass to do absolutely nothing except indulge your own whims and comfort, and abuse people who live alongside you.

I grew up with an older DS with ASD and the violent temper and angry outbursts when he was an adolescent terrified me and have affected me for years afterwards. The combo of raging testosterone and ASD was not the only problem though. Due to not coping with his ASD when he was younger, he had been allowed to get away with selfish and lazy behaviour throughout his childhood. My dm mothered him and let him off the hook a lot. It strengthened or perhaps even created a temperamental inclination to assume the entire world existed for his own benefit.

He is now an adult and has struggled to sustain adult relationships, to build a career. Simple things remain a challenge. For example he put up with a very dark living room for 6 years because he never got around to changing the light bulb.

So whilst arguments are not fixing the situation with your ds, I do believe it’s really important he accepts there is more than one point of view. And his may not be entirely correct. He also needs to accept that as he gets closer to adulthood, things have to change. That violence is unacceptable. That drama over minor incidents is unacceptable.

He lives in your home; you are the adult and responsible parent; you set the reasonable rules of household cooperation; and he lives within them. That is how it is, that is what he must accept. This means life will not always be organised for his own personal convenience.

I would tomorrow make him a timetable of chores and a list of expected behaviours- including looking after the cat, not behaving with violence or anger, and I would remove all devices and privileges if he does not comply. You can do this calmly and rationally and set a date for each of the chores and tasks to commence, but don’t let him off the hook.

I would also consider your other dc in this situation. When the “big” behaviour of the kid with ASD is so headline-grabbing, the other dc can feel really sidelined. I would be making a big fuss if your other dc - reward positive behaviour there with plenty of attention, please don’t take it for granted. Because take it from me, growing up in a household with violence and anger and a sibling who constantly takes all your parents’ energy, has a long-term impact.