If you are against immigration, what do you think about net contributing immigrants?

[IceLollyMolly]

I don't have the nerve to post in AIBU! I am a recent immigrant- I don't even have my ILR yet- and came in on a skilled worker visa in 2020, as did my DH. Both of us are high earners and pay a lot of tax. Both of us fill positions that were first advertised to British people, but could not be filled.

Lately, of course, there has been a lot of press about high immigration and how it should be curbed. There seems to be a simmering resentment against all immigrants, spearheaded ironically by Tory immigrants.

So far, I have not taken anything from the state and am unlikely to. I have private health care, and am pretty healthy anyway, so rarely use it. I have not given birth here or used state schools. If I ever had to go on benefits, I would likely return to my home country where I had a good standard of life, just not the international workplace I have here.

I am aware that the country needs both high earners and low earners- I am not saying I am more important than a care worker- but I sometimes get tired of the narrative that all immigrants are low paid unskilled workers taking jobs from British people, and a drain on the system. I am by no means the only one in this position. I work for a company that recruits globally. But many are now going to the US or Canada as they think they will be more welcome there.

I think that by paying high taxes, my colleagues and I are giving back more than we take. We are of course not eligible for benefits until we get our ILRs. Am I wrong? I also think the British economy should encourage high earning immigrants and global talent by making immigration easier and cheaper. My ILR next year will cost £2885 per person and may take 6 months! I think that is rather unfair. Prepared to be told I am being unreasonable even though this is not in AIBU.😊

I don't know anyone who is "against immigration".

I am against people arriving uninvited and undocumented.

You are welcome as you have come via legal channels bringing your needed skills.

I hope you have a great life here however long your stay.

I first came to the UK 20 years ago so I understand by now that when people complain about immigration, they are not referring to all immigrants. They mean people of colour and poor people, even those who come here legally to fill much needed job vacancies.

I can't tell you how many times I've had British people rant at me about immigrants, then when I point out that I'm an immigrant, they say, oh I don't mean you. That's because I'm a white Anglo. I'm presumed to be ok even though I have been on benefits here, I've used the NHS to give birth, etc.

In the end, the UK is an island with finite resources and can only support a certain number of people. Our public services can only provide for a certain number of people. Everyone has different ideas of how many people, and who should have priority.

High earners always contribute to GDP. They bring much needed skills to the NHS and elsewhere. International students (mostly post-grads) contribute their skills, their ideas and innovation, and the significant fees they pay to study here.

But I suppose if you are a young couple in a university town, struggling to find anywhere to live because all the incoming students have pushed the prices of local rentals up, then it's easy to blame the students.

And there are other impacts - look at British teachers being threatened in British schools for referring to prophets, or arguments about which groups should be allowed to protest in London. It isn't just about money. And it's always the negative stuff people see on the front page of the Mail.

Sorry but it's incredibly short-sighted to think only high-earning immigrants are contributing to society. The people who come here to pick our crops and take care of our elderly are also making vital contributions to society, doubly so because they are doing the jobs that British people don't seem to want to do. The fact that they are low paid does not mean they are not contributing, we are already seeing the impacts of labour shortages in numerous sectors.

Exactly as @BMW6 says. I am very happy to work with great colleagues who have settled in the UK from other countries. My daughter has many lovely school friends whose parents moved here (I like the parents very much too!). I consider the parents to be 'from X country' and I consider the children born here to be 'British with X background' if the family's intention is to stay here.

So long as you are here legally, that's all good.

If your values are markedly different from mine: regarding democracy, a secular state, women's rights and other protected characteristics, then I'm less happy. But so long as you don't try to force those values on other people, and you also respect the rights of your children who are now a part of UK society, then I'll accept it as I accept other opinions I disagree with in our society.

OP you seem to be oblivious of why people who don't like immigrants don't like immigrants.

Its like asking a misogynist if it helps that you like beer and football

The issue is that there are no “legal channels” for many people fleeing from terror.
What do you suggest they do?

Its illegal immigration people have an issue with, not those who have arrived legally and with the relevant security checks and paperwork.

In addition to limited resources it is a huge security risk.

Really nothing to do with skin colour.

It's to do with ability to integrate into our society in a positive way.

And that comes partly from shared values, partly from having something to contribute to society (not necessarily all the time, but as much as other citizens), and partly from volumes of potential immigrants.

Settle in the first safe country they come to. Seek asylum there.

They can't just decide 'But I really want to be in Britain instead'. If you are fleeing terror you sadly don't have the option of picking whatever country in the world you happen to fancy living in if there aren't legal ways for you to do so.

This

"Against immigration" is a problematic term for me. I'm not against immigration...I am however concerned about the levels. My only real reason for this is the housing crisis in the UK. So net contributers are obviously preferable from an economic point of view but the more people we have in the country the more expensive housing is

The issue of immigration isn't just about jobs. It's about cultural identity.

Look at Ireland, the levels of immigration that have taken place over the past 20 years has changed the culture on the island. The children of people who immigrated there will change it further. On such a small island, those changes will be profound. The history and cultural practices will become diluted, but the disruptor will also not be present in sufficient numbers to replace what was "lost" with something more tangible. The result will be a sort of gradual erosion of what makes Ireland "Irish".

You can see it here too,there are huge areas within some cities that a lot of people would consider to be "no longer British", whatever that might mean.

When councils have to put up signs and have paperwork available in multiple languages, people begin to question where it will all end.

No single indivdual can ever be a "net" contributer, how do you quantify the cost of travelling down the M4?

Did YOU pay for it all by yourself?

It isn't just about using "services", it's more nuanced than that.

Think of it like this. If you lived on a street with 100 houses, 85 of your neighbours were local "British" people, born and raised for generations in the immediate area. Then suddenly (I'm making this up for dramatic purposes) 80 houses were sold to purple spotted Martians. Who moved in, parked their space ships on the front lawn, played Martian music, spoke Martian, lobbied for Martian rights, wanted tentacle ramps put up on all public buildings and business premises, demanded Martian speaking Teachers at the local primary, and called you a Martianist for raising any objections.

You might begin to feel like you longer recognise your own neighbourhood, and maybe not feel welcome there anymore.

It's a hugely complex issue, and money and jobs are not really the focus.

We are going to have some very challenging years ahead trying to navigate all of this.

It's a global problem, and it will require a global shift to find a way through.

Are borders still appropriate?

Should people just allowed to move anywhere they chose?

Now that we can "work" from anywhere, should we be allowed to "work" in other countries, could someone living in London "work" remotely for an American company?

Ideas on a postcard please.

Some asylum seekers want to come here because they have family here for support. Some have worked for british forces and were promised asylum here which has not been given.
What should they do?

I'm sorry but you are genuinely fleeing terror then going to the first safe space that will have you is the priority. You don't get to be that picky. The rules state they need to present themselves at the first safe port. The UK and Ireland is a long way from that.

The unpleasant truth is that while there are some fleeing terror, there are other who are simply economic migrants who wouldn't get a visa, so come to Britain/ Ireland because they know that the social support is better than many other countries.

I have been an immigrant in other countries, I had to fulfil visa and work conditions and when my time was up I had to leave.

I am grateful that there are people willing to come and work, who have skills and are willing to work in many jobs that are understaffed, but having thousands of undocumented people turning up (mostly young men btw, where are the women and children? If they are genuinely fleeing war then why not take their families?) and we have no idea who they are. It does change smaller towns and villages who don't have the capacity (housing crisis anyone? massive hospital waiting lists...) to cope.

I first came to the UK 20 years ago so I understand by now that when people complain about immigration, they are not referring to all immigrants. They mean people of colour and poor people, even those who come here legally to fill much needed job vacancies.

Don't speak for me. I would rather we invited skilled people from the Commonwealth (their poverty there is not relevant if they have skills that are valuable), rather than EU citizens who are overwhelmingly white!

It’s the numbers of undocumented illegal immigrants that most of the people I know are concerned about. This island is already overcrowded in many areas & the infrastructure is struggling to cope. A safe country should be a relief to anyone genuinely fleeing & as someone said why are the vast majority young men, have they left their parents, wives, children behind to face the dangers while they flee? And you must have seen old film footage of families fleeing whether in Europe during the war or from Ukraine more recently, carrying whatever they could, pushing handcarts, babies in arms. Not paying a couple of £thousand arriving on dinghies wearing waterproofs & new trainers, carrying mobile phones. This is what “anti immigration “ is about for most people.

Personally I'm much more concerned about legal migration. 3/4 million people last year. They all need homes and we don't have enough. The government like to distract us with talk of the illegal migrants and boat crossings so we forget how many people they allow in legally each year.

You can see it here too,there are huge areas within some cities that a lot of people would consider to be "no longer British", whatever that might mean. When councils have to put up signs and have paperwork available in multiple languages, people begin to question where it will all end.

It will end the way it always ends, with immigrant communities gradually integrating and assimilating into British society.
Do people really not know that there have always been large waves of immigration to Britain and especially to London? Huguenots, Eastern European Jews, people from all over the Empire -- and hey look, Britain is still Britain.

Shame to see so many Great Replacement tropes on this thread.

I've lived in several parts of London that are frequently called no-go areas, no longer British, and it's absolute racist nonsense, promoted by outsiders.

Some asylum seekers want to come here because they have family here for support.

I have family in Australia and Canada and would quite like to live in either of those two countries, rather than the UK. I don't qualify for a work visa, so I won't be able to. It's not a good enough reason. We are often talking 'extended family' so the fact that your uncle, or your second cousin is here isn't enough. As an adult, it isn't even enough if your closest kin is in another country - it doesn't give you automatic entry if you have no legal right to reside there. You might WANT to come, but that's tough luck.

'Promised' asylum here? Promised by people that did not have the authority to make these promises or else govt and policy changed. We've been 'promised' a lot of things by various Governments over the years. None of which has come to pass.

I agree with these points:

I am against people arriving uninvited and undocumented.

You are welcome as you have come via legal channels bringing your needed skills.

I agree with PPs who have said it's because the UK is a relatively small area with limited resources. We have rural areas we need to preserve, and sadly more and more animal species are becoming threatened due to urban sprawl. Not to mention the immense pressure placed on infrastructure. We simply cannot build on every space we have to accommodate everyone who wishes to settle here. Therefore, it makes sense to most decent, rational people to control immigration and choose who we allow to remain.

I think legal migration can be used advantageously for a country, via visas or point system etc but that we’re entering a period of strain over irregular migration and it’s starting to show in a fair few countries

I think it is a lie that British people refuse to do jobs/professions and we must bring in immigrants instead.

I think in certain professions, e.g healthcare the pay and conditions have been driven down to where individuals are choosing to leave/not take up new jobs in a protest about what is happening.

Instead of dealing with this, the government and hospitals look for an easier and cheaper option - bringing in people from abroad - a bit like strike breakers.

I think employers are treating their workers very badly and they are enabled to do this because if people protest, they will happily look for overseas candidates who will 'shut up and put up'.

In Covid many people applied to work on farms but were refused as they did not have the experience of the job to pick fast enough to make minimum wage and in addition would not accept the poor accommodation that came with the role (at their cost). Instead experienced overseas workers were insisted upon.

We need to look at improving pay and conditions for all people working in the UK, in all roles and retain/rebuild the skills that we are losing by pulling in people trained in other countries.

Those who settle here and integrate, speak the language and are employed are not the problem.
The problem is the 1000s of undocumented illegal male (and it is mostly males) immigrants coming in on the boats. Most have destroyed their papers so we don't know where they are from.
We just can't sustain such influxesbof these people, we already have a housing crisis. Shortage of GPs, NHS struggling.

What are we supposed to do with these people?

Womblingmerrily
I think in certain professions, e.g healthcare the pay and conditions have been driven down to where individuals are choosing to leave/not take up new jobs in a protest about what is happening.
Instead of dealing with this, the government and hospitals look for an easier and cheaper option - bringing in people from abroad - a bit like strike breakers.

This has happened in Ireland with our nurses - most Irish nurses go abroad to Australia and Canada where the pay and conditions are better. So the Irish government have brought in nurses from the Phillipines - who by the way do a great job, but are willing to put up with less pay and crappy conditions.