long post please no judgment

[mumofoneand2dogs]

Someone must be in the same boat as me? I have a 4 nearly 5 year old daughter. I don’t know what to do with her sometimes, its hard to explain so im sorry if this doesn’t make sense. She is on the go all the time, she barely sleeps she can not sit still, ive tried reading to her ive done calm down time, where we will just sit in her bedroom talking or just chilling but never works, she goes to school she does everything ok there. Our daily routine is pretty much the same everyday apart from Saturday and Sunday, I get her up around 7ish, we have a little talk and then we head down for breakfast, we then tidy breakfast and head upstairs to brush teeth and get ready for school, head to school around 8.30am (the school is at the bottom of my road) she goes to school till 3.10 I pick her up we head home she does what she would like to do while I cook dinner, we have dinner between 5 and 5.30 after dinner, I give her a bath she plays in the bath till about 6ish. Pjs and she will then play in her room on her ipad or watch tv. Either one then I will tell her its bedtime and I read her a story, this is when things get interesting. All this sounds like perfect routine! But its not she is constantly either trying to find things to do to wind me up like annoying the dogs or slamming doors I try to ask her whats wrong and if anything has happened at school. She either tells me not to talk to her or tell me to go away. Its like she hates me but yet cant not be where I am, shes behind me at all times. She don’t stop talking she wont relax for even 2 minutes. Im so tired… she does not stop we have tried ignoring her when its bedtime but she keeps going, we have tried to comfort her we have tried everything. It doesn’t stop there though, she is constantly in my face if I tell her not to do something she says “well I am” and does it anyway. Its not like I don’t give her attention because I do, I plat games with her and do her homework with her I get her involved with cooking, we sometimes go to the park after school but she just don’t seem happy with anything I try and do.
Even when I do try and do things with her she cant concentrate on it, she will go off to something else and wont stop until she has said what she has had to say, its like her brain is working over time, if im talking to someone she will interrupt until I speak to her, even if I say “ hang on I will be with you in a second” she wont stop until my attention is on her. She will do things without thinking about it like she will randomly throw her toys or will spill her drink on purpose, things like that she don’t have any respect for me at all. I have said to her come on lets go get yous pjs on and were watch a film together, she will flat out say no, and not do it. I have shouted at her and I no that’s not the right thing to do, but even that didn’t work she just couldn’t give a shit. She don’t like the word no, if I tell her no she wont leave off until she either does it or finds something else to do. I don’t get a minutes piece, I work school hours from home so my daytime is taken over by that. When I get her from school its like a constant battle. Same routine everyday but battling the whole way or arguing with her. I don’t even get the evenings to myself as she doesn’t sleep, her dad has taken her to his mums or the park for a couple hours just so I can have a bath in piece. I have to let her fall asleep in my bed in the end and then move her back to her bed, then shes up at 2/3 am getting back in to my bed. I love her more then life its self but im mentally and physically drained. I feel tired all the time, to the point ive fallen asleep and missed my zoom meetings. So work isn’t impressed with me and the last thing I need is to get the sack.

Sorry for the long post but any advise would be greatly appreciated.

ADHD with autism is my semi-layman's diagnosis. Please make a GP appointment and discuss this with them. Make a list of behaviours. Ask for a CAMH referral. Also, talk to the school and see if they notice similar behaviour. Then, wait for CAMHs and stay on top of them. The waitlist is long.

At home, look up therapeutic parenting and practise it, join a listening circle and take advantage of online education on NATP website. Set boundaries for behaviour.

i’d also take her to do something after school. Even if it’s just the park, if she is feeling restless or under stimulated.

does she understand what behaviour is expected of her?
not just “be a good girl” but basic guidelines of what is acceptable.

she sounds like she might be bored.

Your routine isn't that great.

When she gets home, it seems that instead of playing with her at the park, interacting with her, having her get involved by helping you do chores or supporting her learning for the day, you are just cooking tea. She is then out of the bath at a very early hour and instead of a wind down routine with a story, she is left to her own devices again with a screen.

She needs a longer bath time where she's getting out of the bath quite close to sleeping time, proper exercise and quality time with you where you're reading to her. No screens for two hours before bedtime and probably no sugar to see if that helps.

Take the iPad away.

She's five.

Get her interested in outdoor things.

Sounds full on and you may want to look into ADHD in the future.

The most important thing right now is sleep.
You are going to have to put in some boundaries, so you can make sure you get a good sleep because you know the day will be full on.

I recommend putting soothing radio or something on in the background, night light etc. When she gets up you need to put her back into her own bed. This is going to be so so difficult because she will resist but you need sleep. Eventually, she will learn. Also put in a boundary where she isn’t to go into your room full stop- make this your sanctuary. When you have a child this intense you have to have a space away from everything. So reward her for knocking on your door etc but she’s not to come in, you will come out to her.

Also bedtime, whatever time you put her own bed. Make it 45 mins earlier. You take her to her room and you put an audio book on and she has to listen to it in bed. You don’t stay in the room, you don’t sit with her until she falls asleep. You just put her in her jammies and you put on a new story. If she gets out her room, you put her back in. Let her choose the stories, you can get them free from the library.

Also bed time at 6/6.30 is pretty early.

it could be pushed 30mins but have a longer wind down routine without screens.

most 4 year olds are not going to sit down for a whole film that often. It’s too long

Screen time close to bed is not helpful for sleep. Personally I'd shift bath and bed time later, and also fit in more activity before bed, so she has more of an opportunity to decompress and burn off energy.

can i just add her bedtime isnt 6.30, we sit and read or she will play in her room. bedtime is around half 7 8. also i do interact with her we play in the garden with the dogs and she plays on her trampoline or climbing frame. it isnt dinner bath bed.

Thank you, some other people have said this. i will get a telephone appointment with the gp tomorrow, see what they say. i just feel like im running on air. lol

My now 15 year old was a bit like this. Has adhd. At 5 I started her in gymnastics and by 7 she was going 18 hours a week. Best thing ever.

her bedtime is around 7.30 8. i will read to her before hand. we also play in the garden after school with the dogs, i should have added that. its not literally home from school dinner bath bed, she does get to do other things. i will try and push back bath time to about 7ish and then ger her ready for bed and read her a story.

No i wont take the ipad away sometimes thats the only thing that will help in calming her down, we have a climbing frame in the garden along with trampolines bikes and scooters! if the weather is nice and not raining then we will be outside playing or playing with the dogs or taking them up the field it i should have added that in the original post.

Stop the screen time before bed, she doesn’t need a tablet or tv in her room, that won’t be helping. Does she do any after school activities to keep her engaged? An activity or trip to the park would help burn off some energy before dinner time. I also agree 6.30 is a bit early to be going to her room. You could try pushing it to 7pm and doing a shorter bed time.

we do play in the garden with the climbing frame and other bits and pieces or playing with the dogs, she LOVES to help me cook she has her own pots and pans she cooks with. she goes to bed around 7.30 8. she also loves a bath so she could be in that for up to an hour. i dont just let her get on with things. we will play in her room either with her toys or downstairs we will play other games. i shouls have said that in my post.

What is she doing on the iPad? Mine would turn into screaming banshees after screen time at that age. Can you stop evening screen time?

Screens before bed are known to be bad. They stimulate the brain making it harder to sleep. Get rid of it.

she pushes the boundaries, she knows what is right and what is wrong but she will do it anyway. its like she is trying to get attention even though she has my full attention 95% of the time. i give her things to do while i cook or if i have a bath. even then though she is behind me i try and include her, but she gets bored and then will do something she knows she shouldn't, its like if we go to tesco or any shop she will run off. she knows its naughty but she does it anyway. its really hard to explain and im not the best at explaining things.

I think you'll have a lot of people talking about autism and ADHD.
However, before going that route i think I would make some changes, firstly get rid of the tablet/TV time before bed and try and get some physical activity going on.
Before bed, I would try something like stringing beads (to make necklaces) or lite-bright, I've read lots of studies that say if you do a fine motor activity before bed it can slow your brain down ready for sleep.
Hope this helps!

You poor thing. That sounds absolutely exhausting, for both you and her. I echo a PP’s suggestion that you ask for a referral for autism and ADHD assessment.

She’s 4 years old, of course she’s pushing boundaries even though she knows what’s right and wrong. My almost 4 year old does the same, right now she is refusing to go to sleep and keeps coming downstairs, just a normal child.

Give her screen time when she first gets in from school and not closer to bedtime. Young dc shouldn't have screens at least 2 hours before bed. It just makes some children wired.

Ignore the it’s all because of screen time brigade, sounds like it helps her regulate, I agree that pursuing a neuro developmental assessment makes sense and looking at low demand parenting.

It sounds like she's seeking connection/ attention. What's she like when her dad puts her to bed?

if you don’t want to hear advice to reduce screen time before bed and do want to hear about joining a waiting list for a diagnosis, consider that
parents of children with additional needs are also advised to reduce screen time and promote fine motor activity, bath time and story

You have a live wire, it is tough.

Definitely worth getting her on the path to assess neuro difference. Get her a physically active hobby (try things until something sticks, she needs to be tired out). A mini trampoline she can use alone (if yours isn’t), dance mat things.

Push bed a bit later

I do think you have to knock off the iPad before bed. I know it seems to calm her down but suspect it doesn’t calm her brain down. Some crafting would be good.

Get her dad to do his share - lots of physical activity.

Once she is more tired it will be easier to be harder on boundaries. You have to take her back to her own bed everytime. You will have a week from hell, but a week will probably do it.