long post please no judgment

[mumofoneand2dogs]

Someone must be in the same boat as me? I have a 4 nearly 5 year old daughter. I don’t know what to do with her sometimes, its hard to explain so im sorry if this doesn’t make sense. She is on the go all the time, she barely sleeps she can not sit still, ive tried reading to her ive done calm down time, where we will just sit in her bedroom talking or just chilling but never works, she goes to school she does everything ok there. Our daily routine is pretty much the same everyday apart from Saturday and Sunday, I get her up around 7ish, we have a little talk and then we head down for breakfast, we then tidy breakfast and head upstairs to brush teeth and get ready for school, head to school around 8.30am (the school is at the bottom of my road) she goes to school till 3.10 I pick her up we head home she does what she would like to do while I cook dinner, we have dinner between 5 and 5.30 after dinner, I give her a bath she plays in the bath till about 6ish. Pjs and she will then play in her room on her ipad or watch tv. Either one then I will tell her its bedtime and I read her a story, this is when things get interesting. All this sounds like perfect routine! But its not she is constantly either trying to find things to do to wind me up like annoying the dogs or slamming doors I try to ask her whats wrong and if anything has happened at school. She either tells me not to talk to her or tell me to go away. Its like she hates me but yet cant not be where I am, shes behind me at all times. She don’t stop talking she wont relax for even 2 minutes. Im so tired… she does not stop we have tried ignoring her when its bedtime but she keeps going, we have tried to comfort her we have tried everything. It doesn’t stop there though, she is constantly in my face if I tell her not to do something she says “well I am” and does it anyway. Its not like I don’t give her attention because I do, I plat games with her and do her homework with her I get her involved with cooking, we sometimes go to the park after school but she just don’t seem happy with anything I try and do.
Even when I do try and do things with her she cant concentrate on it, she will go off to something else and wont stop until she has said what she has had to say, its like her brain is working over time, if im talking to someone she will interrupt until I speak to her, even if I say “ hang on I will be with you in a second” she wont stop until my attention is on her. She will do things without thinking about it like she will randomly throw her toys or will spill her drink on purpose, things like that she don’t have any respect for me at all. I have said to her come on lets go get yous pjs on and were watch a film together, she will flat out say no, and not do it. I have shouted at her and I no that’s not the right thing to do, but even that didn’t work she just couldn’t give a shit. She don’t like the word no, if I tell her no she wont leave off until she either does it or finds something else to do. I don’t get a minutes piece, I work school hours from home so my daytime is taken over by that. When I get her from school its like a constant battle. Same routine everyday but battling the whole way or arguing with her. I don’t even get the evenings to myself as she doesn’t sleep, her dad has taken her to his mums or the park for a couple hours just so I can have a bath in piece. I have to let her fall asleep in my bed in the end and then move her back to her bed, then shes up at 2/3 am getting back in to my bed. I love her more then life its self but im mentally and physically drained. I feel tired all the time, to the point ive fallen asleep and missed my zoom meetings. So work isn’t impressed with me and the last thing I need is to get the sack.

Sorry for the long post but any advise would be greatly appreciated.

I think she may still need you to do things ”with” her.
so if you are cooking she has a task too. Maybe helping in the cooking, so she feels like she is still getting attention from you an and involved in older activities. Either way have her doing the distraction activities in the same place as you. So you can both see each other it may help.

running off in a super market is pretty normal, what is you usual response to this.

i’d also reinforce the why when talking about behaviour boundaries. Why we don’t run and what is ok fun behaviour in the supermarket.
give her 3 items to find now she feels involved and is distracted.

if she is defiant, she may need more redirecting rather than going back and forth with telling off. Especially for small
offences.
“you know shouldn’t be running in here, but I understand int can be a bit dull so can you please find this item in this isle”then move on.

have a bath after she’s gone to bed, or let her sit in the doorway and read to you.

is there anything she doesn’t get bored with?

Lots saying adhd and autism. Could be so. Don't despair. I've been there. If it is this, you'll get a lot of well meaning advice from parents without these issues, some of it will be judgmental, but the thing to realise early on is that unless you parent a child with these needs, you do not know your arse from your elbow. A lot of what these parents of neurotypical children advise just makes things worse. For example, there are a lot of people who don't know or fully comprehend the impact of sleep disturbances for autistic children (which no amount of super nannying cures). You just mitigate with co sleeping and very long bed time routines until they grow out of it, realising that it's not like sleep training a neuro-typical baby and patting yourself on back when they start making it through the night. Make sure you get support for you to have breaks if you can. If you can afford it, don't muck about with CAMHS, get a private assessment asap. CAMHS is on its knees and was basically inaccessible when we needed it.

Parent of an autistic teen:
Sounds like a normal four year old, over tired from school, pushing boundaries and wanting attention on her terms.

Don't use the iPad, it's not calming her it's over stimulating her. Cbeebies on the family tv with it's longer programmes is better if she must have a screen but again not an hour before bed. Even if it does calm her (and screens do work differently for those that are ND) then once you start using it as a crutch to soothe them it's hard and almost impossible to get rid of so nip it on the bud now.

Change up the routine, go swimming a couple of evenings a week, change into PJs at the pool, toast and then book and bed. Swimming will tire her out in the way playing in the garden won't and help reset her sleep routine. On the nights you don't go swimming then do some storytime yoga with her.

What is she like at school? Is she disruptive? A chatterbox?

It sounds very tiring for you OP...hope you get some good advice on here. Xx

I think the iPad and TV part after the bath isn’t helping. The bath would help her wind down for bed time and then the light from the iPad would do the opposite.

There’s research that blue light before bed for adults isn’t good for sleep so I imagine it’s the same for children.

@mumofoneand2dogs The iPad is her hyper-focus, which is very typical of ADHD children, who are Hyperactive rather than Inattentive. It will help calm her busy brain as she blocks out all the background simulation. Use the screen when needed. Ignore the responses from those telling you no screen for two hours before bed. The iPad is not ideal, but it is a useful tool.

Thank you, as she isnt diagonised ADHD, would i be best of speaking to my GP and seeing what my options are? and how i can make her feel better in the home? x

Hey, She is pretty much the same at school. She cant leave things alone like if the teacher asks a question and shes asks another child to answer it and they move on from that question, she wont let it go untill she has answered the question she put her hand up for. if that makes sense? she is also always on the go and finds it hard to sit in her chair she has to be focused on something for her to stay there. beacuse she has her friends there she gets all her energy out as its quite an active school. it is very tiring just hoping things will get that little bit better lol xx

Maybe try taking her to the park or playing in the garden with her? She could have lots of energy and needs to run around? You sound like a caring mum so good luck.

I agree with trying some outdoor exercise after school and a couple of activity clubs. Her routine doesn't sound much like fun and bed at 6 is very early IMHO. Maybe she is just an energetic child. Doesn't mean there's something wrong with them that needs treated.

OP said she does read a story to her. I think you're being harsh.

thank you so much, some actual helpful advice, i will be speaking to my partner when he gets home about going private. seems to be with her she has a lot of the symptoms of ADHD, i have spoken to a few mums with children who have been dragonised and they are all saying thats how their children was, most now in their teens. thank you so much for understanding really apricate it :)

It’s knackering when you have a child like this, and I get why you sometimes need to use screens.
My rule was always no screen after tea, up till the end of primary school. It worked well for us because there was a clear and good reason to turn it off.
Build in outside play or activity like swimming, sports clubs, rainbows if you can.
Gro-clock with rewards (not iPad) for staying in her own bed - and do speak to the GP.

Good luck!

hello, i do do things "with" her she loves helping me cook and clean i always give her something to do and sit her on the side with me, if were cleaning i will give her a cloth and some spray. if we are in the garden i will play with her with her toys. if im doing washing she takes it out and outs it in the dier and then re loads the washing machine. she gets enough attention and that from me. She will then also get bored in 20 seconds and start on something else like annoying the dogs, so then i open the back door and they can all come and go as they please. i cant stop everything im doing to accommodate her all the time, i wouldn't get anything done lol. i set her up little things to do to keep her entertained but again will get bored and then decide to go trash her bedroom. its really difficult to explain. so yeah i will give her the ipad if it means i can get something done or have a quick bath without getting cold water thrown over me or her trying to wash my hair when i dont want it washed. i would have a bath after she goes to sleep but probably be after 11pm at night. Think by then i have had enough. i work from 9 till 3 so i cant even have a the day to myself either.

she dont go to bed at 6!!!!!!!

Thank you, we do go in the garden when the weather is nice (well not raining) she has a climbing frame, trampoline and anything a child could ask for to be honest. she will play on what ever she likes to and i will throw the ball for the dogs or she will, we will stay out there for like an hour and then i start dinner. or we will walk the dogs together for an hour. 9 times out of 10 she gets bored of that and wants to go home. so the garden is the go to. :) it wouldnt be so bad if she just went to bed at a sensible time but these 11 12 oclocks are getting to be draining now lol

I know you don’t want to hear it but …

The screens need to go. Am dismayed that that you seem to think it’s easier to get a diagnosis of some kind of behavioral or developmental difference, than it is to take the screen away.

I’d bet cash money that she’s watching YouTube- am I right?

Another one who says more outdoor exercise. I know many activities can cost money, but can you take her swimming / swimming lessons after school? Get her into a dancing class / football class?

Do you sit down and play with your daughter? An hour or so playing on the floor with my daughter's Sylvanian Families always helped to settle her before bath time. I would also stop her using the iPad before bed, and have soothing lullaby type music. I wouldn't consider exploring an ADHD diagnosis - people are far too quick to try to label children nowadays. You mentioned that she runs off in the supermarket or does things that she knows she shouldn't - are there consequences when she does this?

Something has pushed your daughter into a hyper anxious/alert state (probably school) and her body is finding it difficult to switch off and get effective sleep. I don’t have any particularly helpful answers because I am dealing with the same situation with both myself and my daughter, but try to find ways to calm the nervous system like massage or a walk through nature. I ended up going to a naturopath and getting some calming herbal supplements which were surprisingly effective. One thing i haven’t tried but considered is glasses to block blue light while they are on the iPad.

Your daughter sounds okay to me and they can demand a lot of attention at this age. I don’t understand why others immediately jump onto autism/ADHD. My grandson was similar at this age and the school wanted him assessed. My daughter declined and within a year he was a completely different child. He had simply grown out of those behaviours.

nope watches movies on Disney plus... so far from youtube!! Also im not taking the screen away, sometimes its the only thing that will calm her down. shes not on it 24/7 anyway. its actually quite rare, sometimes dont even use it at all shes not glued to it 24/7.

Just like to Add last night it was 12.30 am she was spinning on my desk chair, i took the chair away. we have motion censor low lights for when we get up to go to the bathroom or up and down the stairs, so we dont have to turn the big lights on. it was 1.20am when she fell asleep. i turned off the motion censored lights so was pitch black and that still didnt stop her she was turning on lamps and lights running in and out of the bedrooms. nothing i could do to calm her down i just had to let her wear herself till she fell asleep. i tried to giver her cuddles in bed but she wouldnt have it. then shes back up at 6.30am telling me we are going to be late for school. the kid dont sleep shes NEVER tired. As for all these "do you do things with her" YES WE DO!!!!! garden, parks, dog walks, skate park with her scooter, go see family or friends. Even being calm at home and not having any tvs or ipads not using our phones and just laying there she will find something to get in to. She hates after school club and will not go she dont like going to public simming pools because they are 'dirty' i dont know where this has come from because no one has said it and NO she does NOT watch YOUTUBE she only watches Disney + or netflix.