No benefits if unemployed for more than a year and other ways Sunak wants ti tackle the Benefits system

[cakeorwine]

This are the headlines - I can see some massive issues here for people - it's easy to say there are job vacancies - but what if they aren't in the area people are and there is no transport to get there. How does that work? I can see a lot of exploitation here.

There's also the other rules here around PIP payments, part time workers etc.

I wonder how much personal experience Sunak has of such things?

This is an outline from the Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13330045/Benefits-axed-year-stop-lifestyle-choice-Prime-Minister.html

12-month rule for unemployed

Tory manifesto plans will see people on the dole have their benefit claims closed after a year unless they can convince Jobcentre staff they are actively looking for work and willing to accept any reasonable job offer.

Personal Independence Payments

Hundreds of thousands of people with anxiety and depression could lose access to payments worth up to £700 a month and instead be offered therapy to help them back to work.

PART-TIME WORKERS

New rules will require part-time workers on Universal Credit to look for more work. Anyone working for less than the equivalent of 18 hours a week on minimum wage will have to show they are actively seeking more hours.

Disability rules

The work capability assessment rules, which govern who is eligible for sickness benefits, will be tightened to require 424,000 with milder mental health conditions to start looking for work.

Sick notes

GPs could be stripped of their role in signing off people as sick and replaced by 'specialist work and health professionals' who will focus on what work people could do with support, such as flexibility to work from home.

Benefit Fraud

Investigators will be handed new powers to tackle benefit fraud, which hit £6.4 billion last year. In future they will have similar powers to those investigating tax fraud, including the ability to make seizures and arrests

It seems the solution to these problems is financial punishment .

There are no solutions - therapy - I mean waiting lists for Mh services is incredible .

camhs services for children is woefully inadequate . I have been in the camhs system for 8 years . I have been on a waiting list for a course that will help my Ds . I have been waiting 12 months no date yet . These are the foundations of adults .

i was advised therapy by my gp last year but completely understood I was on the border of breakdown . If I didn’t have an amazingly supportive employer I would have been off sick . I have had to take phone calls , meetings to get my Ds through -

I could not have some many jobs when Ds was much younger , hospitality , retail - they require weekend or evenings - no childcare is available .

I think this is just blame the poor policy - which the bloody tories love .

i do remember the last election - the north / south divide would be addressed . I believe nothing they say except they will be looking after there mates and themselves

I've been on benefits and now my children are adults I no longer claim anything and I work full time and own my own home.

I've seen both sides and yes, there's plenty of people playing the system. I think the problem on MN is a lot of people don't live in the type of area where unemployment is high and areas are classed as underprivileged.

I live in a very poor area of the UK and apparently the average full time wage just over £23k. People here don't want to work and if they are forced to then they work part time and get topped up with benefits. Most people rent because they know the majority of it gets paid. The welfare bill is spiralling and the higher the population gets the higher the bill gets.

People where I live moan about not having chances and there being no local jobs but there's never been so many wfh jobs available and the rest of us have to travel to the nearest city to work. The benefits system has given people too much opportunity to slack off and pick and choose what they want to do and I agree it has to change but not for the vulnerable people that are too ill too work.

My friends partner works as security in our job centre and every day they are faced with people physically threatening them because they have breached their obligations and been sanctioned. Another friend regularly gets asked to lie and say people have been for interviews if anyone from the DWP checks when they have zero intention of getting work.

I just don't know how much longer the country can keep paying out more than it has coming in and yes corporations have to pay more tax etc but also people have to realise that benefits are there as a safety net not a career choice if you are able bodied. Maybe whoever wins the election can find a middle ground and ensure that the people in society who need the most help gets it and if that means making people who can work actually work then I do agree with it.

People who have the resources can relocate for work.

What resources does your average Polish cleaner have, so she could relocate all the way here, that your average UC claimant in search of more hours doesn’t?

And she’s certainly not lacking in elderly relatives in need of care.

If you were going to relocate to the Home Counties for work from Blackpool for example, how would you do it and what resources do you think you would need?

Where would you stay and how would you get even the first few weeks sorted?

Savings to pay for the U.K. skilled worker visa of £1,420 plus NHS surcharge of £3,105 for starters. Then add in rent deposit, airfare, and so on.

The average Polish “cleaner” is usually a degree educated professional from a middle income bracket in Poland that is being denied employment in their career field because their qualifications are not being accepted…

Yeah snobbery

But I could retrain specifically because I am intelligent. This is not a brag post, you are a higher rate tax payer so its likely you too will be intelligent.

I retrained into data and coding. If Bob, who has been a plasterer all his life got the same disability as me that doesnt mean he could have done the same as me. He might have been able to, I'm sure there are plenty of plasterers who can code, but equally he may have gone into plastering because he is dyslexic, never got the support he needed at school, and now quite frankly cant take on a wfh job that involves technology and coding.

Thats not his fault.

I think there is a real issue with the avoidance of talking about intelligence in this issue. Maybe people are trying to be polite and kind or they are worried they will be accused of bragging if they claim more intelligence.

But the reality is that jobs that suit people with less intelligence have been, or are being, moved abroad, or automated, or just got rid of. And as a result some of those people "sitting at home" just dont have the same options in jobs because you cannot get rid of manual, easier work and assume everyone can easily retain in tech etc.

So are people rinsing the system? Or do we just have unreasonable expectations about people who have often already been let down by our education system.

No. That’s only what MN likes to think.

But even if that was the case, it’s someone who’s not scared of work.

I just don't know how much longer the country can keep paying out more than it has coming in

Except we aren’t paying out more than is coming in. Or we weren’t until Sunak decided to cut taxes that benefit the rich the most.

https://x.com/Number10cat/status/1781356828997079122

99.9% of people in receipt of unemployment benefits are not scared of work. The point is that the much denigrated average Polish cleaner will have spent close to £5k to get here and therefore are better off financially than someone local living in poverty.

Not really.

Before Brexit, when most workers relocated there was no NHS surcharge, air fares can be as low as £30 and rent is usually a shared room in a shared house, covered by UC.

All that’s needed is willingness to work.

There was a man called in on Jeremy Vine who called in he was recieving £1800pm he had severe mental health problems but he felt he was getting too much. To note I wasn’t getting much more take home pay after working on a top band 6 weekends & nights for over 35yrs.

Yeah right! Course they are!

Brexit was 8 years ago, and the deadline for having established residency was over 3 years ago. No one moving today from Poland can do so without paying full price for the work visa and NHS surcharge. They also have no access to public funds so there is no way they will have Universal Credit paying their rent.

They are. Lots of articles on this subject.

And of course it doesn’t have to be a Polish cleaner. It can a Bulgarian labourer or a Romanian meat factory worker.

All happy to relocate and work.

Well, he has no personal experience at all.

Lots of people arent employable. As a society we need to consider what we do with these people.

Let them starve?

Or treat everyone with dignity?

Not while they are long term sick/disabled and destitute.

You’d be surprised what the reality is.

I think I have a better grasp on the reality of U.K. immigration than you do tbh.

OK, let’s leave the disabled aside for a moment.

What about able bodied, healthy working age people?

Should they absolutely refuse to relocate?

While I don't believe it's as simple as this 'blanket rule' makes out and don't agree Sunak's suggestion is in any way fair to people who are already probably finding life impossible, I do feel lots of people could be more open minded to moving particularly if they have haven't found work for a long time. It wouldn't work due to having children or caring commitments but for many others a year or two working elsewhere while times are tough wouldn't do much harm.

The "Polish cleaner" is a distraction - it's more about the idea of relocating to places where the work is instead of staying in the area you grew up in where the jobs aren't.

Personally, I think that we should have more job opportunities in the areas people grew up in. If people start to relocate to where the jobs are (which can be difficult if you haven't got the resources), that leads to a vicious cycle in the areas where they come from. No opportunities, no investment and a decline.

I've moved a lot in my life - but my parents moved a lot so I never had an attachment to the place I grew up in. I would feel reluctant to relocate now in my 50s as I have lived here a long time - luckily I live in an area with good jobs and opportunities, There are a LOT more jobs in my field in the South East but I have a house and a mortgage and there is no way I would want to look at selling up and moving to the South East.