No benefits if unemployed for more than a year and other ways Sunak wants ti tackle the Benefits system

[cakeorwine]

This are the headlines - I can see some massive issues here for people - it's easy to say there are job vacancies - but what if they aren't in the area people are and there is no transport to get there. How does that work? I can see a lot of exploitation here.

There's also the other rules here around PIP payments, part time workers etc.

I wonder how much personal experience Sunak has of such things?

This is an outline from the Daily Mail

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13330045/Benefits-axed-year-stop-lifestyle-choice-Prime-Minister.html

12-month rule for unemployed

Tory manifesto plans will see people on the dole have their benefit claims closed after a year unless they can convince Jobcentre staff they are actively looking for work and willing to accept any reasonable job offer.

Personal Independence Payments

Hundreds of thousands of people with anxiety and depression could lose access to payments worth up to £700 a month and instead be offered therapy to help them back to work.

PART-TIME WORKERS

New rules will require part-time workers on Universal Credit to look for more work. Anyone working for less than the equivalent of 18 hours a week on minimum wage will have to show they are actively seeking more hours.

Disability rules

The work capability assessment rules, which govern who is eligible for sickness benefits, will be tightened to require 424,000 with milder mental health conditions to start looking for work.

Sick notes

GPs could be stripped of their role in signing off people as sick and replaced by 'specialist work and health professionals' who will focus on what work people could do with support, such as flexibility to work from home.

Benefit Fraud

Investigators will be handed new powers to tackle benefit fraud, which hit £6.4 billion last year. In future they will have similar powers to those investigating tax fraud, including the ability to make seizures and arrests

FFS what on earth is wrong with you?

I could very well ask you the same question.

Would you accept being on a hospital ward following an operation, being denied toilet visits, food, or medication with nurses telling you it was only for two days so it didn't matter?

Two days is plenty to expect someone to have some quality of life. I doubt it would be just tough shit, you're fine most of the time, when it was you or a loved one.

16 million people in the UK have a disability

3.3 million claim PIP along with 65k children on DLA

Some (lacking critical thinking people): Waaah nearly everyone on PIP is faking it, there cant possibly be that many disabled people ...

You are the one advocating for this, what on earth is wrong with you?

I find the whole thing extremely belittling to those who bother to get out of bed every morning and spend the day at work, as well as juggling child care with normal family life tbh.

Those benefit support pages are beyond the pale. Some bloke on there asked if he could apply for PIP. He’s already claiming for the child he has sole care for. “Yes, you can. I do”. Came the resounding reply. Looking at the Pip descriptors how can someone take care of a child, feed him, bath him, give him meds, get up in the morning, dress him, feed him, transport him to school and after school activities but claim he can’t take care of himself? How does that work? 🤔

Another one has attended A&E twice and wants to know if she can have extra money. “Yes you can!”

What???!!!

You seem to be confusing people who get unqualified advice off Facebook pages with the number of people who actually get PIP

The person who wants it for going to A&E twice won't get it for that. However they may get it if they have a condition that forms the reason why they needed to go to A&E which causes them additional issues

How terrifying, if unsurprising, that you 'work in mental health'. Your posts sum up the toxic culture and lack of insight in the mental health system.

So ‘professionals know best’ but not when they’re saying something you disagree with?

Well thats the governments stance isnt it.

2020 Lets clap for the NHS including GPs
2024 GPs cant be trusted regarding sickness certification

I mean thats a professional who said the following to a poster talking about her son who is/was suicidal:

The many people who I have helped over the years are the ones who listen, act and take some responsibility. But you carry on doing you - it seems to be working so well for you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You sound very bitter.
You are the sort of client that makes a health professional's heart sink when you are allocated to them (newsflash, health professionals have mental health too). The sort of client who complains, moans and puts the responsibility of fixing 'them' onto someone else. The sort of client who you know will never improve because they prefer to play the victims and will drain you of every bit of your compassion and empathy.
Life is hard, lots of people struggle, and lots of people experience trauma and lots come through the other side.
Try getting out a bit. You know, fresh air, hobbies, friends. You seem to spend a lot of time on forums. Not good for your mental health at all.

All of which is incredibly cruel given the circumatances and about as far from "professional" as you can get. So if they wanted us to believe that "professionals know best" perhaps they could have acted like one

I have never claimed 'professionals know best'. I mean, those working for ATOS could be described as 'professionals' for all it's worth.

The nhs mental health system is as much a shit show as the benefit system and although many empathetic people who care work within it, as many completely unsuitable people are also drawn to it.

In short, the vulnerable are fucked.

I might well be the person living next door who will get their care (if I make it that far) paid for because I've spent everything I've ever earned.

I spent everything I've ever earned on the highlife of rent, council tax, water, gas & electric and food. Nothing for luxuries, holidays admittedly paid for by my family because they wanted me to go with them and a family loan for a car I need because my job was at risk due to the bus service tanking.

And the irony? I've spent half my working life (close to 30 years so around 15) working in the social care you expect to be there to care for you in your dotage, earning minimum wage while care companies skimmed tax payers money off the top and into their likely off shore and tax dodging bank accounts, paying minimum wage and providing minimum resources.

Every penny I've ever earned (except the couple of thousand in my workplace pension) has been spent on living, going back into the economy, some of it likely sat in more offshore accounts in the form of profit for supermarkets and energy companies.

Perhaps I should just be put down when I'm no longer able to provide a service because I didn't earn enough financially for my 'dotage'? It's not like my actual work that has supported society has any value whatsoever!

Perhaps if some more of that £4k a month your MIL paid went into the wages of the people doing the actual job, rather than profits and shareholders, people like me would have had the opportunity to save some of what we earned against our own old age.

The answer to that is often 'get a better job' though isn't it - well I have, so many I worked with have - so who do you expect is going to be providing the care you expect to be available should you need it? The same people you resent?

This is absolutely necessary and long overdue. There are far too many people fraudulently claiming benefits, not just for a few months or years but for decades. I am involved with a mental health charity as I have mentioned before and there are some people who are ill and who do need help, and I am totally in favour of giving them everything they need. But unfortunately there are many, many people who play the system, especially regarding PIP/Adult Disability Payment. It is subjective, applicants need to say how their "condition" makes them feel, affects their day. Applicants know how to respond to the questions in order to get their claim accepted and get the money, they advise each other on what to say/how to lie on the form. I know this isn't everyone, I know there are genuine claimants, but people are kidding themselves on if they think it is a minority of people how are fraudulently claiming.

As a side note, Scotland is devolved and has its own system regarding benefits. Do we think Scotland will also crack down on benefits cheats?

PIP overpayment due to fraud and error is a tiny percentage @Helensburghmiddleagedmum

"The Personal Independence Payment overpayment rate was at the lowest recorded level of 1.1% (£200m) in FYE 2023, compared with 1.5% (£190m) in FYE 2020"

"Overpayments due to Fraud were 0.2% (£40m) in FYE 2023, compared with 0.3% (£30m) in FYE 2020"

I personally know at least 25 people in the mental health hub I am involved with who are fraudulently claiming PIP. They are not included in official figures, they haven't been caught.

In what way are they fraudulently claiming PIP? Do you attend their face to face assessments?

There would be some massive personal data concerns if "someone working at a mental health charity" was privvy to at least 25 peoples full medical records including any specialists notes or prescriptions, plus their full PIP application, plus the assessors notes, plus and paperwork from appeals etc

Especially when you normally refer to it as "helping out" which sounds more like a volunteer than employed there

You do realise with your username its fairly obvious which mental health hub you might be referring to and therefore there might be users of that mental health hub, or their families, wondering what information you have been given access to or if you are bitching about them or their family. It's incredibly unprofessional and I would be very suprised if there wasnt rules around not being offensive about the users of the hub on social media.

You might want to consider getting MN to delete your posts and try using something a little less outing in future. Even if you dont actually live/work in Helensburgh any more I am aware there is a mental health hub there as I have a cousin who has done work with them and so your username risks bringing them into disrepute through association.

It is strange how on Mumsnet so many "mental healthcare workers" a) hate their clients b) seem to have zero clue about confidentiality.

It never ceases to amaze me that people are happy for their elderly relatives to be cared for by people they regard with absolute contempt

@twistyizzy I don't but that's what Labour suggests. VAT on private school fees which in effect mean VAT on all education, nursery, universities etc which are in actual fact independent institutions.
My point was this is seen as acceptable as it's a tax meant to affect "wealthy people" or higher earners - whereas asking everyone who can work to work is somehow seen as attacking poor people.

I mean if you are proposing a law that actually means "if you can work you have too" which means people with millions in the bank and trust fund kids actually have to work then that would be something

Otherwise it's just an attack on poor and disabled people

Yes but if they are not claiming benefits then it's a different scenario

@dimllaishebiaith Some people have to be involved in anything don't they - just for the sake of it . . .

Houseinawood, well said, the entitlement these days is astounding. You are in a minority with your work ethic but well done.

All people not working through no reason should be made to work

Get a job instead of liv ing off benefits
Stop having kids to boost your benefits
All benefits need to be stopped for people able to work