How’s this for a whole new level of cheeky fuckery - someone has token our allotment!

[YaMuvva]

Moved into our new house in January. Bought off a lovely lady who was a widow and something of a popular figure in the street (relevant).

We were pleasantly surprised to find that in the deeds it came with a garage across the road (which we’d seen at the viewing but it wasn’t clear it belonged to the house) and an allotment plot. We’ve actually been on an allotment waiting list for years so it was nice news.

We’ve already had aggro with the garage - when we got the keys we went to open it and found that it was rammed full of full boxes! I called previous owner directly as she gave us her number (as assumed they were hers) and she said she allowed our next door neighbour for years to use it. He was most put out when we told him to clear his stuff as we needed to use it. This was 3 months ago, and only last week did he finally clear it out, and only did so when we had to get shitty with him and say if he didn’t clear the garage we would do it for him (don’t want to get off an a bad foot with the neighbours but he was taking the piss).

Anyway we have never checked out the allotment before now (it’s not far about a 10 min walk from here) just because of time constraints and illnesses and crappy weather but decided to finally today go and find it as the sun is shining here.

Anyway, when we got there we looked on the sheet of paper we’d been given and found the plot - and a person sitting next to a full and lush patch sitting on a chair having a cuppa! There is also a shed full of tools coffee cups newspapers etc in it too . We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years.

My DH, still stinging from the garage debacle, said well I’m afraid your very dear friend doesn’t live in no 8 any more we do and we are reclaiming the allotment, thank you for looking after it but it is OURS to enjoy.

She bloody said no! And that she’s cultivated this patch for several years, she grows all her veggies here and it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’! She also said she paid for the shed.

DH said that’s fine, expect a fight then, and we shuffled away in shock. I then rang the old owner and she said “Oh yes it’s Barbara’s plot really she was good to take it off my hands and it would be awful to take it off her”. To be clear - the plot has NOT been sold to Barbara.

I just can’t believe the piss takery of this. DH thinks we should just go and take down the shed, leave it at her front door and dig up everything and chuck it all in a bin.

I feel like the neighbours just took the piss out of the old owner and think they genuinely have a claim to the stuff she was kind enough to let them borrow.

This. I feel sorry for Barbara. Its the fault of the vendor not her

My god OP

I have had a run of CF recently

But this ffs

So sorry xxxxx

Ultimately, @YaMuvva has to act soon in order to protect their own rights. This needs to be done via the solicitor, and even if am agreement is reached with allotment squatter, it needs to be formalised.

The issue is between the allotment squatter and the previous owner, not with the new owner. 'Sorry she didn't tell you and all that, but take it up with her and not me. I was told it was all vacant'.

You don’t need to pay to download the title and plan - it will be in your legal report as an annexe, and then when the sale was registered your conveyancer would have sent you the new register with your names in section B.

Mine's fine and it was sunny enough last weekend to sit out. It could be full and lush with fruit in blossom and over winter crops, which are still being harvested.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Because the longer they let Barbara work it, the more difficult it will be to get rid of her.

The property is an asset of value. If the OP decides to sell her home in future, it will add to the price. Why should she give that away to a stranger?

I don't think she can claim adverse possession because she was there with the lawful permission of the owner. The owner has changed so she should leave. Possession is never ‘adverse’ within the meaning of the 1980 Act if it is enjoyed under a lawful title. If, therefore, a person occupies or uses land by licence of the owner with the paper title and his licence has not been duly determined, he cannot be treated as having been in ‘adverse possession’ as against the owner of the paper title.

This is the most interesting thread I've read in a long time.

Because the longer they let Barbara work it, the more difficult it will be to get rid of her

This. Plus Barbara has already shown that she is assuming ownership of it with no actual paperwork so if they let her stay she will continue to assume it's hers. What if she gets ill and hands it over to her family and then they then assume it's theirs. It's actually far more cruel to let her stay under a wrong assumption. Barbara needs to know that legally it doesnt belong to her and tiptoeing round it is not helping her at all. Its lying to her.

Poor Barbara. She will have already done all the hard work for this year. Assuming it's yours, and not a council owned plot, i would let her have it for the rest of the year. Maybe charge her a peppercorn rent to show it's your property. I wouldn't want any bad blood.

This

Surely Barbara, knowing that the plot isn't hers, and possibly knowing that the house that owned the plot was being sold, did all this at her own risk, so isn't actually "poor Barbara"?

More like "hoping to get away with it Barbara"?

Or "Hoping to be able to continue to use it Barbara"?

Or even "I'll stick my head in the allotment sand, and hope it goes away Barbara"?

On the other hand, she's had free 10 years use of a property that she doesn't own, without having to go through the wait, cost and effort of getting a council allotment. I wouldn't think of her as "poor Barbara," but rather "lucky Barbara."

Since the old owner sounds flaky, they probably told her not to worry about it, and to use it as long as she wanted to...

Has anybody said she should stay because she's elderly? It's about managing her leaving the plot (if it does indeed belong to the OP) as she has invested time and effort in raising crops. - like maybe waiting until the end of this growing season. Obviously she should go if the plot belongs to the OP.

On the other hand, she's had free 10 years use of a property that she doesn't own, without having to go through the wait, cost and effort of getting a council allotment. I wouldn't think of her as "poor Barbara," but rather "lucky Barbara."

Exactly this.

Why are people so afraid to defend what’s theirs? Tell her to sling her hook.

Exactly right.

Jeeze, what a mess. I think you have to leave it all to the solicitor in order not to have this all become personal.

My DD and son in law have an allotment. They have incredibly stressful jobs, and it's their sanity. They put their heart and soul into it, it's both beautiful and productive,and I can't imagine how they'd feel in Barbara's place. That said, they wouldn't have been so naive as to think it was theirs forever.

But yep, once the solicitor has contacted her, you could certainly soften the blow by letting her have use of it until October, and come out with a slightly better relationship.

Once you have double checked the legal position you need to go out there and hand Barbara a letter, preferably written by your solicitor, telling her to vacate the allotment within 2 weeks. She is an Olympic podium finish cheeky fucker. You will have to be firm and repeat action may be necessary. Do not give up.

I recently bought an apartment where both parking bays were being used - one by the owner who needed to tow a car out of the bay, and one by a neighbour who had had some arrangement with the previous owner to swap bays. The seller disclosed neither. I informed the neighbour that I was not interested in the previous arrangements and I started texting him directly on his mobile about moving his car. Once I got his mobile number and was not going through the body corporate he moved it very quickly 😂

Ask her how she feels about buying it off you. But yes both neighbours are very much taking the piss.

It sounds like (considering it's April and taken you 3 months to get down there) you might not really be that inclined to use the allotment a lot. Perhaps you could make an agreement with Barbara to temporarily share the space and have a contract written up to the effect that she is allowed to use it but she does not have any ownership rights to it, and you are entitled to be there and grow whatever you like. I'm going to take a guess that based on the name, Barbara may not have many gardening years left and as long as it's clear she doesn't own it and she can't pass it on to anyone else, you may have a fairly short wait until it's back in your full possession.

OP, I'm raging on your behalf.

C.F's indeed.....!!!

Disclaimer, haven't read the full thread, just the OPs updates but the key thing here is that if you do indeed now own the title of the garage and the allotment you should have been given 'vacant possession'. If someone else is installed on the allotment then that isn't vacant possession and your conveyancer needs to take this up with the vendor - she needs to resolve this. Your conveyancer should be able to advise. The vendor cannot sell you something and then say actually I've let someone else have that.

Agree with this.

If I was Barbara I would have either wanted clarity that it had been excluded from the sale (and if that was what she had been told you would think she would have said so when op came round) or would have been round to number 8 the moment op moved in with chocolates, wine and a welcome card to introduce myself and begin my charm offensive in the hope I would be allowed to stay.

Just digging her heels in without any clear argument as to why it’s hers makes no sense.