How’s this for a whole new level of cheeky fuckery - someone has token our allotment!

[YaMuvva]

Moved into our new house in January. Bought off a lovely lady who was a widow and something of a popular figure in the street (relevant).

We were pleasantly surprised to find that in the deeds it came with a garage across the road (which we’d seen at the viewing but it wasn’t clear it belonged to the house) and an allotment plot. We’ve actually been on an allotment waiting list for years so it was nice news.

We’ve already had aggro with the garage - when we got the keys we went to open it and found that it was rammed full of full boxes! I called previous owner directly as she gave us her number (as assumed they were hers) and she said she allowed our next door neighbour for years to use it. He was most put out when we told him to clear his stuff as we needed to use it. This was 3 months ago, and only last week did he finally clear it out, and only did so when we had to get shitty with him and say if he didn’t clear the garage we would do it for him (don’t want to get off an a bad foot with the neighbours but he was taking the piss).

Anyway we have never checked out the allotment before now (it’s not far about a 10 min walk from here) just because of time constraints and illnesses and crappy weather but decided to finally today go and find it as the sun is shining here.

Anyway, when we got there we looked on the sheet of paper we’d been given and found the plot - and a person sitting next to a full and lush patch sitting on a chair having a cuppa! There is also a shed full of tools coffee cups newspapers etc in it too . We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years.

My DH, still stinging from the garage debacle, said well I’m afraid your very dear friend doesn’t live in no 8 any more we do and we are reclaiming the allotment, thank you for looking after it but it is OURS to enjoy.

She bloody said no! And that she’s cultivated this patch for several years, she grows all her veggies here and it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’! She also said she paid for the shed.

DH said that’s fine, expect a fight then, and we shuffled away in shock. I then rang the old owner and she said “Oh yes it’s Barbara’s plot really she was good to take it off my hands and it would be awful to take it off her”. To be clear - the plot has NOT been sold to Barbara.

I just can’t believe the piss takery of this. DH thinks we should just go and take down the shed, leave it at her front door and dig up everything and chuck it all in a bin.

I feel like the neighbours just took the piss out of the old owner and think they genuinely have a claim to the stuff she was kind enough to let them borrow.

I would be furious with the seller. She hasn’t been kind, she’s been feckless. She was presumably happy to take the money for the garage and land, but ignored her responsibility to arrange vacant possession. She should have foreseen that would cause a real headache for OP, and possibly for her friends as well.

I hope OP’s solicitor makes the seller face up to her responsibilities - including having that difficult conversation with Barbara.

OP only you know what this woman is like but she certainly sounds like your bog standard community pita who has little else to do and will be difficult regardless.

You can try the approach of "horrendous mistake" initially with the two letters as suggested below but make both of these letters a precursor to actually using a lawyer. The chances are both Barbara and the seller will ignore you because there are only consequences for you, not them. It will only be when there are some actual costs or problems involved that people actually back down.

Being nice does not cut it generally - and btw once you try this approach and get nowhere, get a lawyer. Don't give any more notice.

Barbara will spin this out for the whole season if you let her. I have lives next to a Barbara and indeed she was an arse right up until I politely said I was a lawyer and I would be going for her financially. This was after much polite enquiry as to whether she would fix her property.

The problem was resolved within a day. Some people really need a fire under them and those people are usually those who are combative from the outset.

I would not offer her any part of the land. She could hold an grudge , and be a thorn in the side in future.

I'd see about charging Barbara an extortionate amount of rent for her shed and tell her that, as you own the land, everything she grows belongs to you and help myself to as much of the produce as you need/want everyday. Either that or be there everyday to "supervise".

We buy and sell property.
Our solicitors actually answer the phone when you ring and if not about or on another call ring back straight away.
Think you all need to find better conveyancers.

God the martyrs are out in force at the moment aren't they. Plus the people who can't read -it came clear in conveyancing it came with a garage and land. So what if they didn't check the garage (aren't they all full of tut anyway which should have gone with the seller!) or the land.
It's not OP's fault that Barbara didn't do due diligence on the allotment. More fool her! It belongs to you and your husband -THE END. He would benefit from it is great but this doesn't need to be justified or explained as it belongs to him. Or where is the line drawn?! "We want and need a car more than number 8 so we start driving their car". Or "we have more children and washing than number 76 so let's use their utility room". That's before you get to Barbara's attitude

Wow this thread. Some PPs are totally batshit 😁

OP please keep us updated on BabsGate and your allotment. Btw, have you cancelled the cheque?

@Doingmybest12 when selling a house, there is the assumption of vacant possession. Every vendor knows that. And it’ll be on the contracts. You wouldn’t walk around a house you planned to buy, saying to the vendor “you’ll be removing that settee won’t you, you’ll be removing that bed won’t you, you’ll be removing those books won’t you, you’ll be removing those plates won’t you” etc etc. The only thing I might seek to clarify would be something like a shed or a greenhouse. Every possession that could be picked up, I would assume would be gone, unless I was told otherwise.

Like many people, my garage is full of junk. If I was selling my house, I wouldn’t feel the need to tell the buyer I’d be taking my junk away. It would be a given.

The OP has already stated that her husband is a keen and knowledgable gardener. RTFT!

Well, the theoretical martyrs at least. Whether they would be quite so saintly if it was their own land is another question….

so sorry you are going through this @YaMuvva

Your vendor was a CF for not sorting all of this out before she moved away.

Barbara was probably initially in shock and just doubling down. Legally, she doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Decide on what you want to do - rent her part of it or get her to vacate.

I would 100% be charging the CF vendor for all of this, as she hasn't left the property and it's land in an order that you can use it.

I keep coming back to this thread because some of the answers are literally bat shit.
OP owns the land, it’s hers to do with as she wishes. Barbara doesn’t own the land.

Please can everyone stop posting on this thread at about 990, so that the OP has a chance to post comment 1000 😊

The ownership is not fuzzy at all. Do you not read threads before you comment?

This reminds me of my woodland saga where neighbours took control of it. Part of it get built on with no planning permission. The Council refused to take Enforcement as its a neighbour dispute 🙄 despite it being Green Belt and TPO woodland.

Anyway, we went down the Criminal Legal Route and it cost us thousands and we have got nowhere.

Legal advice to us was that we need to write the them and take them to court. We begun the court process but the money is ridiculous and we have had to pause it. We were advised that we could write to them to stop use of the land and that we will be reclaiming back that area and anything left by that date we will take as ours. But we were told they could then take us to court and we have no money for that.

Basically, your hands are tied on this OP.

Our neighbours now hate us and have set fire to our woodland a few times. We have no proof it is them but who else would it be.

If it was me, and these are your neighbours, I would suggest it's shared? Maybe go over to her house and attempt to make peace and suggest a shared arrangement? Explain the situation to her. Seems like the Seller never warned her.

God, the 'be kind and just let poor old Barbara have the land' brigade are so boring. Barbara is a chancer who had ample opportunity to come to you and discuss the lie of the land (ha ha!) like a proper adult. Barbara chose the shitty route of just sitting tight, with her fancy mug, and trying to shame you into complying with her desires. I would be very short on compassion for Barbara, especially as she has a large garden of her own she can dig up and grow veg on.

Exactly. They'll be wondering if they're going to be in trouble.

Very interesting post @TwittleBee . I’m sorry to read you’ve had such a terrible experience. I think it’s a lesson in how the text book answer doesn’t always work out.

OP - many are saying go down the route of #3 but if you do, I’d be letting it her small area on an annual fee and making some clear ground rules. (No building with permission, no 3rd parties allowed on site, no transferral of rights to another party etc.). No more casual arrangements here I’d say.

I stand corrected. It is the theoretical martyrs. I doubt it would play out like that in real life….

I remember your thread @TwittleBee - so sorry you’re still going through this, what a nightmare 😢

I'm not aware that anyone has said 'just let Barbara have the land' but several of us have made the point that it may not be as simple as just kicking her off and taking it back. The OP would be foolish to assume she can do that without checking her legal position first. There are some circumstances under which she may have a legal claim to it. That needs to be considered before they go in like a bull in a china shop and dismantle her shed.

A discussion needs to be had with the lady who sold them the house and both the conveyancers, to get to the bottom of it.

Blimey I didn’t expect the thread to fill up so quick. I’ll make a part 2! I’ll call it…CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts 🤣

Ill post an update on it soon

I can’t believe you went in so shouty and rude though.

But sure, it’s yours. It seems like you only want to use it because it’s yours and not because you want to use it though, having waited so long to even take a look at it.

Absolutely.
If Barbara had dealt with this like a decent person and an adult I would be all in favour of op coming to some kind of sharing arrangement, dependent on Barbara’s full recognition of op’s property rights of course. But firstly the fact she didn’t come round and introduce herself to op and second the fact that when challenged she got aggressive and talked about FIGHTING fgs, suggest that she is not a person it is going to be easy to share with.
I think we generally owe each other decency and kindness as a starting point but there are limits to that when the other person does not behave in a like way, and in the beloved Mumsnet phrase, when someone shows you what they are, believe them.