How’s this for a whole new level of cheeky fuckery - someone has token our allotment!

[YaMuvva]

Moved into our new house in January. Bought off a lovely lady who was a widow and something of a popular figure in the street (relevant).

We were pleasantly surprised to find that in the deeds it came with a garage across the road (which we’d seen at the viewing but it wasn’t clear it belonged to the house) and an allotment plot. We’ve actually been on an allotment waiting list for years so it was nice news.

We’ve already had aggro with the garage - when we got the keys we went to open it and found that it was rammed full of full boxes! I called previous owner directly as she gave us her number (as assumed they were hers) and she said she allowed our next door neighbour for years to use it. He was most put out when we told him to clear his stuff as we needed to use it. This was 3 months ago, and only last week did he finally clear it out, and only did so when we had to get shitty with him and say if he didn’t clear the garage we would do it for him (don’t want to get off an a bad foot with the neighbours but he was taking the piss).

Anyway we have never checked out the allotment before now (it’s not far about a 10 min walk from here) just because of time constraints and illnesses and crappy weather but decided to finally today go and find it as the sun is shining here.

Anyway, when we got there we looked on the sheet of paper we’d been given and found the plot - and a person sitting next to a full and lush patch sitting on a chair having a cuppa! There is also a shed full of tools coffee cups newspapers etc in it too . We asked the person if we’d got it wrong as we are new owners of number 8 on X Street and thought this was our new allotment.

Apparently she is our neighbour down the road (never yet met her) and yes whilst it is the allotment belonging to number 8, the previous owner (a “very dear friend” of hers apparently) let her use it, she’s been using it for 10 years.

My DH, still stinging from the garage debacle, said well I’m afraid your very dear friend doesn’t live in no 8 any more we do and we are reclaiming the allotment, thank you for looking after it but it is OURS to enjoy.

She bloody said no! And that she’s cultivated this patch for several years, she grows all her veggies here and it’s her sanctuary so if we want it we will ‘have to fight for it’! She also said she paid for the shed.

DH said that’s fine, expect a fight then, and we shuffled away in shock. I then rang the old owner and she said “Oh yes it’s Barbara’s plot really she was good to take it off my hands and it would be awful to take it off her”. To be clear - the plot has NOT been sold to Barbara.

I just can’t believe the piss takery of this. DH thinks we should just go and take down the shed, leave it at her front door and dig up everything and chuck it all in a bin.

I feel like the neighbours just took the piss out of the old owner and think they genuinely have a claim to the stuff she was kind enough to let them borrow.

If she's been on it 10 years & old owner gifted the allotment to her, I'd definitely check this out. Conveyancer sounds rubbish sorry you're going through this. We have a similar situation but nowhere near as dramatic as yours!

In fairness to the op and her dh, they didn’t have a clue that she was there so they were on the backfoot from the second they saw her sunning herself on their property. Barbara, however, knew full well that she was on borrowed land and that someone would likely turn up to claim it at some point after her elderly mate moved. No money has changed hands, she hasn’t signed or received any paperwork, ergo she knows full well it isn’t hers. She’s a cf.

My friend owned a 1930's house that had a ''Private'' allotment plot that came with it.
All the houses {''modern'' - eg 1930's} backing on to the square of land own a plot- it's lovely, a little oasis of nicely maintained plots where foxes also love to be.

There is a reason the plot wasn't advertised as part of the property sale. There is a risk that Barbara could claim she has “adverse” possession of the land if she has had continuous, open, and exclusive use of the plot for 10 years.

It's not as straightforward as some here believe.

I would try to reach an agreeable compromise because I would worry that Barbara or her friends could make the plot unusable
with weedkiller.

I don't think you can fence it off without planning permission
If it's amenity land you own then certain rules apply including no change of use
You can grow veg but little else - I thought this included erecting buildings so the shed may not be legal there anyway

asx i understand it the land registry details show the land as belonging to the OP. No proof or ownership generally = its not yours!, especially when the purchaser has proof of purchase.

Thank you.

In our last house he did some gardening but when it’s your own garden and you have one child kicking a football about, another going “Dad dad dad watch watch watch dad dad”, and it’s literally not even getting away from the house it really isn’t that fun compared to an allotment! But an allotment is ideal for him as it’s physical but also he could just sit basking in leave if he wanted to (unless we had a vengeful plot neighbour!)

@NoraBattysCurlers I know the law very well thank you, and funnily enough most of the posters banging on about kindness are not coming at this from the context of the law, but from the context of being good ickle girls who don't want to cause any fuss. And it's so sad.

On a related note, can I please rock up at your house and stick a shed in your garden? I could do with the extra storage space.

In what way have they been negligent? It isn't the solicitor's job to visit and inspect the garage and allotment to make sure no-one else is using them. OP might have a case against the seller as they haven't given vacant possession, but the solicitor does not appear to have done anything wrong.

nope....she has said herself that "my dear friend" allowed her to use the land, and the "dear friend" has confirmed this so its not adverse possession.For it to be adverse possession, the landowner can not have known about it or agreed to it. This has been said several times already on this thread, do keep up!

I'd suggest to her that you f she wants your plot of land that she signs over the same size of land in her garden over to you. See if she likes that idea...bet she doesn't but it will maybe reiterate to her that it is YOUR land that you've paid for!

I agree with the brisk approach and send this woman a letter asserting your legal ownership. Her attitude tells you everything and a few parsnips being lost is not criminal damage.

Play it with a straight bat because tbh Barbara is going to lie her arse off to everyone just as she did when you first met. With people like these you have to be very dull and provide zero drama which means legal letter, clearance of site and zero emotional engagement with her. She definitely wants drama because she's said as much to you.

Vengeful Plot Neighbour sounds like the premise of a good thriller!

Adverse possession is very difficult to prove, and the key point is it requires possession WITHOUT the owner's consent. This woman was clearly given consent by the previous owner to use the property, but not to claim it as the title deed was not changed and the land was sold to a new owner.

I'd be tempted to record any interaction with my phone.

So then show some compassion

We don’t even know if she has MH issues!! And if she does - it’s still our patch! DH has spent the last 16 years battling with depression and PTSD with very few resources that actually help him. I’m not saying an allotment will rid him of his MH issues - he will always live with his memories and trauma. But he’s dig his heels in, battled his demands whilst rubbing a business and being an amazing husband and father and he’s bloody well earned the opportunity.

Also - it’s ours. It belongs to us.

What sort of people are you?

Well we’re not thieves.

It's also maybe a little naive to assume that land not used for 10 years would have lain fallow for all that time. Land is desired as you know so to expect a ready to use plot to be magically available is...?

Yes actually. But then I judge people by my own standards and I just wouldn’t steal something that wasn’t mine because someone else wasn’t using it. So yes I did assume it had either laid bare or had remnants of an allotment that was used years ago

@godmum56 people really do throw legal terms about on these threads with no knowledge of what they actually mean-it's baffling.

Another one without a clue.
The plot was included in the sale, that’s how OP knew about it. The seller has signed the documents to say it was vacant possession of all parts of the sale.

And the adverse possession bullshit. Could you explain how you think that works? Because of this has been repeatedly corrected. Adverse possession can only be claimed if you have used the land without the owner’s permission. That’s the “adverse” part of it. You need to have had exclusive use without the owner letting you use it. That is not the case here. She cannot claim adverse possession. She has no rights here. So why have you said she can?

But how is it relevant?!

My DH has battled depression for nearly 2 decades but he doesn’t steal off people because he’s ‘going through something’

But her side of the story would still be “I’m using land that’s not mine”.

Are you actually Barbara?

Do you give things away to random strangers just in case they have MH issues?

and multiple times too

Maybe just maybe she’s happy, fulfilled and is just a grabby bugger.

But I KNOW my DH would benefit from an allotment.

The vendor may already know this - or will soon - because OP's spoken to her solicitor who's going to contact the vendor's (and will no doubt make this clear, because they won't be especially pleased that they lied either)

With any luck OP might not have to send any letters of her own, since faced with more potential legal bills the previous owner might well sort it herself