Jeffrey Donaldson

[Cafog]

Is there a thread yet that I haven't found? Shocked to hear this news this morning about the recently knighted MP and leader of the DUP being charged with historical sex offences along with his wife. And disgusted at all those in a froth on social media who haven't even spared a thought for his potential victims.

'Historic Gross Indecency' means either sex with another adult male or sex with a minor under the age of 14. Before 2008 I think, maybe 2003, findable with a search engine anyway. I doubt they'd be arresting him on the former charge in 2024.

On teaching history, I don't know what proportion of people in the UK study it anyway to either GCSE or A level.

Do pupils in the UK not learn British colonial history in primary school ?

No. (Well I didn't and as far as I know schools in England 2000-2012 didn't).

If they do how, near to the present do they learn about ?

See above.

My introduction to Irish/Northern Irish history was at Uni, from a housemate who came from Ballycastle. They were amazed I wanted to know, and even more amazed it stuck (FAT D(L)AD, for example).

In one role - for a major UK financial institution - it was amusing and alarming in equal measure when I noted we would not be able to use "UK" recruitment software as it wasn't suitable for the requirements in Northern Ireland. And in a nod to the suggestion about the MN readership, I will wager there are plenty of people reading this now going "Huh ? Why would there be different employment laws in Northern Ireland, compared to England, Scotland and Wales ?"

On teaching history, I don't know what proportion of people in the UK study it anyway to either GCSE or A level.

I'd hope a basic understanding of the UKs constitution is a non-negotiable subject in schools. I know it isn't. But it should be.

Yes there's a misunderstanding that Ireland is a different, separate country. Although surely the brexit stuff has clarified that for people?!

But it's also the lack of understanding that while Ireland is the name of the whole island you can't use that to refer to Northern Ireland. Same as people referring to England can't say Great Britain (because that also includes Wales and Scotland). Mixing up geographic names and political entities.

That why it drives me nuts when Alastair Campbell says he was 'in Ireland' when he's been in Northern Ireland. If he said he was 'on Ireland' it would be fair enough. Or if he was making a political point that he doesn't recognise NI it would be fair enough. But he's just ignorant. And he worked on the Good Friday Agreement for years so should know better. So the rest of England haven't a hope.

Yes there's a misunderstanding that Ireland is a different, separate country. Although surely the brexit stuff has clarified that for people?!

People who voted for Brexit had no interest whatsoever in learning. It was almost a USP. In fact, in the absence of any proof to the contrary, I feel any Brexiteer that did start learning didn't stay a Brexiteer for long.

And then the UK media refers to them as "Irish unionists"

You write @Superlambaanana "Yes there is a misunderstanding that Ireland is a different, separate country........"

But it is 🤔

Which would be an excellent description of the nationalists 😁

Not if you listen to dribbling morons like ... our MPs who believed that anyone born in Britain could get an Irish passport.

How anyone with more an one brain cell could be happy with this twat representing them doesn't reflect well on the voters of Leicestershire

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/irish-passport-england-uk-andrew-bridgen-tory-mp-brexit-border-eu-a8587286.html

It should be staggering that an MP could be so ignorant, especially two whole years after the Brexit vote. But sadly it isn't.

Although as I posted on another thread recently I had several NI friends and family asking me if I'd get a British passport after the Brexit vote. I do live in NI but they all know that I'm from Dublin as are my parents and grandparents. That one surprised me I have to say.

@LadyEloise1 yes I know, that's my point. I live here!

@ColleenDonaghy do you mean they thought Irish citizens have dual citizenship like NI citizens and could automatically get a British passport? That is a bit thick of them! But you are entitled to have one, you just have to apply for citizenship, which is pricy and a faff.

Yes that was exactly it, they thought I just had to send the passport form in like they do if they choose to take up their second passport entitlement. Whereas I don't have British citizenship (obviously!) and would have to obtain that first which would be expensive and lengthy for no more benefit than the odd shorter queue on landing in the UK.

@ColleenDonaghy yikes yes that is quite a stunning level of stupidity.

Although I heard on the Rest is Politics podcast lately that something like 18% of the UK population couldn't name the current prime minister. You forget how just many people have low IQs if you don't mix with many of them. Low intelligence + lack of interest = airhead. It's the people who display the Dunning-Kruger effect that really grind my gears though. Know your limits people and keep your mouths shut!

Alarmingly these were informed, educated people, included colleagues in a professional job. They just had a momentary blind spot. I think possibly on some of their parts a subconscious reluctance to acknowledge that legally my position was different to theirs if that makes any sense.

It's not a peculiarly British thing. You would be amazed the number of Americans who genuinely believe the UK is a state of the US. (Quite amusing when they threaten legal action).

It may be a peculiarly anglophone thing. I wonder if the global reach of MN could see someone comment on that from another perspective ? Are there French people who think Belgium is in France ?

Belgium isn't in France??!!!

🤣

I once worked in the US with a US tax attorney who genuinely thought the entire world paid their taxes to the IRS. It never occurred to him that every government had their own tax authority.

I did prank him once. I am a US citizen but grew up in Ireland and sound Irish. On the day of the presidential election I came in and said how lovely it was to get to vote in person rather than by mail like usually did.
He was horrified that foreigners got to vote in US elections, especially liberal Europeans.

I told him with a straight face that the US was so important the whole world got to vote in their Presidential elections. I had to confess the truth later as he was getting so worked up about it.

I once worked in the US with a US tax attorney who genuinely thought the entire world paid their taxes to the IRS. It never occurred to him that every government had their own tax authority.

Thing is that is weirdly sort of true. US citizens are liable for US tax wherever they are in the world.

@ChimneyPot that's hilarious! If only the rest of the world COULD vote in US presidential elections (maybe even instead of Americans!) they wouldn't end up with such morons!

The entirety of British history would have to be studied as a massive survey course if students were to understand the constitution, particularly the underpinnings of the legal system and the development of the parliamentary system.

Sadly, that's not the case

To a certain extent, the rest of the world does vote in American elections. There are millions of current American citizens who were born elsewhere and brought with them their own culture and values when they immigrated.

People from Russia and eastern Europe often vote GOP, or hold opinions or instincts that align with GOP policies and rhetoric. The Hispanic vote is divided - Cubans, Central Americans, Mexicans, and Puerto Ricans living in the US don't all vote for the same candidate. African and Asian immigrants are also a toss up. Nikki Haley has Indian ancestors, and so does Kamala Harris.

People from western European countries often vote for more liberal candidates, though that's not a given. Much depends on level of education. I have one particular former school friend who likes Trump.

There are lots of people here on MN whose posts on various topics make me think they'd happily cast a vote for him if they lived here.

There was an MP recently who said that since the UK is affected by things the EU does, UK citizens should have the right to vote in EU elections ....

It may have been Nadine Dorries

As an American who has lived almost my entire life outside the US I am aware of this. I am especially aware of this in April.

This guy, a tax professional, thought non Americans paid their taxes to the IRS. He couldn’t understand why someone was going to huge effort and huge expense to give back his green card after unexpectedly becoming heir to a huge fortune outside the US.

@SerendipityJane there's a very good movie about Sarah Palin which exposes just how absolutely boneheadedly stupid and uninformed she is. Someone should make a similar film about Nadine.

I know a lovely English couple who have lived here in Cork since the late 90s. When Brexit happened they were as pleased as Punch , even though Sterling crashed 10% and the woman's pension went down a bit. When I raised the difficulties of the hard border or the effect of import / export duties on small businesses they thought I was just being awkward.
'Ireland will just leave the EU as well won't it? Sorted'