Jeffrey Donaldson

[Cafog]

Is there a thread yet that I haven't found? Shocked to hear this news this morning about the recently knighted MP and leader of the DUP being charged with historical sex offences along with his wife. And disgusted at all those in a froth on social media who haven't even spared a thought for his potential victims.

I think people are trying to be responsible here, especially in light of the PSNI statement.

He is a sitting MP, and also still a member of the Privy Council, which he was very proud of, and pointed out to King Charles during that hilarious 'meet the NI party leaders' session soon after QE2's death.

It's outrageous he's still an MP and Privy Counsellor.

I guess we all have the right to be innocent until proven guilty. Gavin Robinson was sworn in as a privy counsellor, is Donaldson still in place too?

"Innocent until proven guilty" and "fair trial" issues mean commentators ( including Mumsnetters on this thread ) and the media have to be careful @Treesinmygarden.

@ColleenDonaghy of course he's innocent until proven guilty. Though I'm afraid I tend to think victims in these cases should be afforded more than 'liars until proven otherwise' status.

But that's irrelevant to the point about him still being an MP. He has been suspended from the party: resigned as party leader and been suspended by the Orange Order. Why not be suspended as an MP too?

Oh I agree re our own personal thoughts re his possible guilt and the ordeal of the victims.

I just meant that it's probably not possible to force him to stand down when he hasn't been convicted of anything. Yet.

It's pretty standard for an MP to leave their party (by choice or otherwise) and then remain in their seat as an independent or member of a new party unless they choose to resign the seat too. He was elected as an individual and so he keeps his seat regardless of his party affiliation. If he stands down or is forced to do so later on in the process, then there would be a by election. Although presumably in this case he just won't stand for reelection in the forthcoming general election?

It's different in Stormont. There, if an MLA leaves their seat the party gets to appoint someone else. That's how our deputy first minister Emma Little-Pengelly got her seat I believe, when Donaldson chose to keep his seat at Westminster the party gave her that seat at Stormont and now she's their leader there despite a pretty bad record at getting elected as a candidate (open to correction on all that).

While I understand why people are using the phrase "innocent until proven guilty" I dislike the phrase being used outside a legal discussion for the same reason. It does suggest the victim is lying until proven otherwise.

He is either guilty or innocent, although he must be treated as innocent legally until proven otherwise. It is up to the courts to make that judgement. We obviously shouldn't do anything to jeopardise that judgement.

Yes agree with all that Ochon.

I think it's much more a reflection of the general level of interest and understanding of Northern Ireland in England the rest of the UK

Do back bench independent MPs get personal protection? I wouldn’t think so.
Jeffery can get the boat from Stranraer to Larne if flying would risk him being photographed.

I'm following the thread. I spent a lot of time in NI with my job over the years but retired now. I met many good people in difficult times there, and still keep an eye on what is happening.

I'm not in NI very often these days, so I don't like to interrupt the threads. Donaldson iirc was something like an aide to Enoch Powell back in the day.

The only thing that surprises me was how quickly Donaldson stood down before he was pushed. That says a lot.

I'm following the thread. I spent a lot of time in NI with my job over the years but retired now. I met many good people in difficult times there, and still keep an eye on what is happening.

I would respectfully suggest you are the exception proving the rule. The vast majority of British people I have met over the years would struggle to find Northern Ireland on a map. And those that could would then struggle to remember that it shares a border with another country. It was a source of perpetual puzzlement to my friends from NI at Uni. They could not understand how "the Brits" could be so wilfully ignorant about a situation which was delivering bombs and bullets daily.

"Surely, if someone was trying to blow you up, you'd at least wonder why ?" they said. Not if you have our press supplying the answers, it seems.

He is a topic of conversation south of the border, and those of us old enough to remember the troubles all seem to share an unfavourable view of him. Surprised by the details of latest development, but not saying 'oh no our hero has feet of clay'. Clay all the way through..

I hope that very few people nowadays regard any politician as a hero. As a Unionist living in NI , he certainly is no hero of mine but I think we all need to await the court case.

And why shouldn't he be photographed? I don't think tax payers money should be spent to spare someone's blushes.

@Clabony
"The only thing that surprises me was how quickly Donaldson stood down before he was pushed. That says a lot."

So many people have commented similar to me. A few have said 'oh he must be guilty because he resigned'. I doubt very much that JD intended to indicate guilt by resigning. No political party can have a senior figure going through a court process regardless of whether they're subsequently proven innocent so he had to step down. It definitely doesn't mean he's guilty.

@SerendipityJane
Quite - the level of ignorance is mind blowing.

An ongoing bugbear of mine is the propensity for people in England to refer to 'Ireland' when they mean Northern Ireland. Alastair Campbell does it all the time on TRIP. 'The Irish problem, when I was in Ireland' etc. If they meant to be republican about it ("I don't recognise NI") I would forgive it but they do it out of ignorance which just goes to show how little people in England really understand NI.

Interesting. He's always been very humourless and speaks in such a scripted, wooden way, that he was very hard to warm to.

Not a DUP fan at all, but I bet if this was a Tory leader (particularly Johnson) they'd have stayed in post and fronted it out.

they do it out of ignorance which just goes to show how little people in England really understand NI.

Or care.

It's almost excruciating to see the hardcore unionists trying to suck up to a country that - on average - doesn't give a toss about them.

The level of ignorance of some is truly astounding. I have had arguments with English people who have insisted that Ireland is part of the UK. Eh, no. I live there. We fought for, and achieved, independence 100 years ago.

I'm not great on geography but the mind boggles that someone would not at least know which geographical areas are contained within the borders of their own country.

And of course, don't get me started on the BBC who appropriate every successful Irish actor/sports person etc.

The level of ignorance of some is truly astounding.

A lot of it is wilful ignorance - the worst kind.

I believe most many UK Mumsnetters are under the impression that Ireland is part of the UK.
We are a separate country entirely, like Spain, France, Italy or India.
We speak the same language because we were invaded and colonised and six counties in the northern part of Ireland were kept by Britain after a treaty was negotiated a 100 years ago after the Irish War of Independence.
A treaty that was unpopular with many in Ireland and led to a civil war 🥲
But like India we are independent.
We are a democratic republic.
Do pupils in the UK not learn British colonial history in primary school ?
If they do how, near to the present do they learn about ?

An adult who reports historical sexual abuse may well have been a child at the time.