How on earth do I learn a foreign language?

[User854]

My husband and young children are bilingual and I feel sad that I can’t speak to them in or understand the second language (we do one parent on language so all my husband’s communication with the children is in his language).

I’ve been using Pimsleur for a year or 2 now but I’m not getting very far. My memory is hopeless and it feels like an insurmountable task.

How do I get fluent/semi fluent in a foreign language as an adult? It must be possible but feels impossible.

I’m time poor and sleep deprived too which doesn’t help, but that won’t change for some years.

As others have said, immersion is the best option but you still learn a lot even if that isn't an option... especially as you're surrounded by the language every day.

Regular practice and lots of repetition is the key, I think. I often wonder if one of the reasons why small children learn languages so quickly is that they don't get bored with hearing the same things over and over again!

Watching films and TV programmes can also be really helpful, especially if you use subtitles to get the meaning while actively listening to the language. I learnt loads from watching crappy soaps in my DH's language.😁

The most important thing is to keep trying. Becoming proficient in a language takes time but you will improve if you stick at it. Sometimes your learning will plateau for a bit and you'll feel like you aren't making progress, but then you might make a big leap forward. Persistence and perseverance are key!

Good on you for trying to learn BTW. I think it's really important in a bilingual family to make the effort!

I started learning a language (German) for the first time a year ago as didn’t do one at school, I started with Duolingo and pimsleir then moved onto a combo of babel live for lessons with others and italki occasionally and switched from duo for a textbook. I use anki for reviewing vocab everyday and watching the coursera course learning how to learn really helped me understand the importance of space repetition etc

I find Babbel much better than Duolingo, might be worth a go? Also there are plenty of other resources online: you can listen to the news in slow French as one example. Obviously you may not be learning French, but there'll be similar websites for other languages. And listen to the radio or podcasts in the language, you can slow down podcasts to help.

You won’t get fluent at it but Duolingo is a good start and fun

i’ve tried Pimsleur and it’s pretty heavy going

@Halfwayuporhalfwaydown
And listen to the radio or podcasts in the language, you can slow down podcasts to help.

Ohh, I hadn't thought of that. I think that would be really useful. Thank you!

I recommend Memrise and a face to face class if there's one near you.

And don't expect to understand every word - I'm a native English speaker with a higher than average vocabulary and there are still words I have to look up ftom time to time. Admittedly some of the hearing is down to inadequate ears, but even reading, I still come across words I am not sure of. This is far more the case in other languages, and it is frustrating when you know you've come across that word before, but it's just not comjbv to mind now.

Also even native speakers make mistakes- we change our minds about what we're saying half way through, we use words we're less familiar with. We lose track. It's normal. (Wish I'd understood that at school, though!)

thanks for all the suggestions. The language is Japanese.

I'm pretty fluent in Japanese, as it happens. There are tons of resources so that's an advantage - far more than I was ever able to find in DH's language.

Is it more the spoken language that you're bothered about or are you trying to learn the kanji as well? I don't actually think the spoken language is that difficult to learn, apart from all of the complications around keigo. You just need lots of practice!!!

As well as the usual Duolongo etc

Can you make a note of all daily key words / phrases that you use as a family every day? Write them phonetically.

Eg
Are you hungry/ tired etc?
What would you like to eat?
Brush your teeth etc.
I would like

You will find you say the same things over and over again.
Learn categories..
Clothes
Animals
Colours
Numbers

Turn it into a game, get your children to teach you and test you.

Label things around the house, with card and blue tack...

I love Michel Thomas. I learned enough from literally zero on the 4 hour flight to Tenerife to be known as the 'Spanish girl' at the hotel They were humouring me of course, it was in no way perfect but they appreciated the effort and I got the meaning 'over the net' iyswim. It really shortens the learning curve with structure and then I just used google translate to switch out the vocab. It does help that IDGAF about making mistakes and don't find it embarrassing.

I dated a guy who was English but grew up in Italy so was fluent in Italian. One weekend I started the MT Italian and he was amazed at how it works and how quickly I was forming sentences. Unfortunately we broke up very soon afterwards and it was too painful for me to continue, but it would have been interesting to see me practice in real time long term and see how my speaking improved.

I haven't practised in years but I can understand 80% of the Spanish in programmes like Power and Jane the Virgin purely from starting with Michel Thomas and then using Anki for vocab.

Ideally just speaking but I’ve read it’s easier to speak if you can at least read hiragana and katakana (I can read hiragana symbols but I’m not great with their use in words).

I agree the language doesn’t seem too complicated to learn I just can’t get the hang of it but I think I might be psyching myself out because learning a foreign language seems like an impossible task (I’ve never learned any foreign language).

Any tips for learning Japanese?

DD17 is learning Japanese. She started with Duolingo and is now doing a distance learning class. She can now read quite a lot of things in the Studio Ghibli cartoon films, or tries to translate the characters she doesn't know to increase her knowledge. I think familiarisation with words and phrases in the language's popular culture is a great way to get immersed in it. Traditional songs, stories and even crafts can help.

Is there a cultural centre for the language your family speaks? I live in London so there's lots here...quite often they offer language classes where you can learn with a native speaker. Also, practice with your kids! Play games in the language together! Scrabble? Boggle?

I think it was much easier for me because I'm naturally good at languages and had already learned about 6 to varying degrees before I went there, so I knew how to go about learning another one before I even started. Plus I was actually living there, which is a huge advantage.

However, you have Japanese being spoken at home on a regular basis, and that's also a big advantage - I have learned my DH's language despite never having lived in a country where it is spoken.

Re tips...I think it's the same as any language really. Drilling and repetition is really boring but it absolutely works because it helps you to fix sentence structures and patterns in your head. And just practice, practice, practice. It doesn't matter if you get stuff wrong, just use what you know and focus on communication rather than accuracy.

You can build your vocab effectively by watching Japanese films and dramas etc. NHK is available quite easily in the UK and has language learning programmes that you might like as well as other opportunities to listen to the language. I also found listening to Japanese music quite helpful as well, especially if you can find an English translation of the lyrics.

Personally, I really enjoyed learning the kanji etc and I relished the challenge, but I'm not sure if learning the kana will really help you with the speaking. I guess having an awareness of the sounds might help with pronunciation etc, but I wouldn't worry about that too much if it's putting you off.

Good luck and ganbare!

Thanks to previous posters for the Michel Thomas recs. I've been doing Duolingo for 6 months and need something else. I tried Pimsleur and it was just so boring!

Japanese is more difficult for English speakers than say, any Romance language. But it's possible.

I used italki to learn a very different language. Because it's a real teacher, you do the homework! But having your DH and DC in the house speaking it should really help. Stop thinking of it as difficult and just learn something new every day.

I don't actually think that spoken Japanese is that difficult for native English speakers to learn. It is the written language that takes time.

I agree with the suggestion to stop thinking of it as difficult because that in itself can become a barrier.

Duolingo and immersion. How about at the weekend you only speak the chosen language. Make sure your dh is supporting you.

Say as much as you can in the language ask them to fill in the blanks and you repeat. The more you do the better you will grasp it .

Remember it is so much more challenging as an adult to a language but it will come.

I have a languages degree in two European languages (a very long time ago though) and am learning Japanese. I guess it depends on how you learn - I would find it very hard to learn aurally/orally with no written back up or explanation of grammar points, and to get that you need to be able to read at least hiragana and katakana. I find the kanji fun and challenging too, but reinforcing my understanding by reading is particularly hard compared with any European language I've learned.

Also, Japanese as a post-positional language basically does everything in a reverse order to English which makes it grammatically challenging to a native English speaker. Though a lot of Japanese grammar is actually quite straightforward, it's very different in the way it works which can make it hard to grasp. It is classed as one of the 5 most difficult languages for an American to learn by the US State Department, I believe (partly of course to do with the writing system).

I use various apps like Duolingo and Lingodeer and also do a weekly class now. A lot of places like CityLit offer classes online. Several of my classmates have Japanese partners and bilingual children too!

I’m good at languages and fluent in several. I like learning them and I like grammar. I don’t rate Duolingo at all. I like Michel Thomas and also the Elisabeth Smith “Fast” series, where 45 minutes a day for six weeks will get you competent and you’ll be understood. You’ll get quick progress with both.

Yes, the UK also classes it as one of the most difficult languages to learn. I did the Modern Languages Aptitude Test years ago and was surprised to find Japanese in the most difficult category. I personally have found some of the "easier" languages much more challenging!

The writing system is somewhat difficult, of course, and requires time and perseverance to get to grips with it, but the spoken language really isn't that bad imo.

I agree with the others to not even try the kanji for now. Just focus on the spoken language.

Japanese uses a lot of set phrases, so you could do worse than start by learning a whole load of vocab and some of those. Don't try to reason the grammar too much to start out with, it's fairly easy to understand but can be tricky to construct right initially.

Don't try to be perfect, focus on your understanding initially. You have a chance to be very exposed to it through your dh and dc, so you can get to the subtlety later.

And probably politically incorrect to say this, but ignore all the hierarchical stuff.

I think it's horses for courses.

My DH is a linguist, he is fluent in four languages and is currently learning another. He has been using Duolingo but backs it up with other material. He is obviously interested in grammar and understands it. I'm the opposite, I struggle with English grammar tbh so the simplistic repetitive way that Duolingo works suits me better. If someone started explaining the grammar to me Id probably struggle to understand. I'm enjoying Duolingo which is really important as it makes it easier for me to stay interested.

Anyone used Paul Noble books? I’ve been listening to one today and it seems pretty good so far

Happy to apologise. Your comment now makes sense, but without any explanation it sounded like 'don't bother- just use a translation ap to communicate instead of bothering to learn'.