England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Another interesting teaching thread.

I’m always struck by the numbers of weary teachers who say that behaviour is ever worse and that the number of SEN pupils rockets upwards. On one thread recently teachers were agreeing that 2/3 of a class being SEN is now routine.

No amount of wage increase or new art blocks will fix those problems.

Something’s gone badly wrong in the profession if children can disrupt, threaten and destroy. I imagine truancy is probably quite welcomed in those cases.

And why so many more SEN pupils? That cannot be a product of money, whether at school or in the economy generally.

This is definitely part of the problem.

I was told by a very able student this week that he was confident he knew more than me about the Israel/Gaza conflict because he uses TikTok to get his news and I confirmed that I do not. Forget years of reading books on the region, following a range of news sources via radio, TV and newspapers and having studied history to a much higher level than him.

Don't have TikTok, they don't want to know.

10% of the teaching staff at my school are quitting this year to go into different fields altogether, ranging from senior leaders to experienced class teachers to ECTs, and across all subjects, especially core and MFL.

I also would like to teach. I have a law degree and am in Scotland. Even for primary, there are no jobs and you have to travel far. With kids it is impossible.

In the state sector, budgeting is a serious issue (no shit Sherlock!) but, because of the way teachers are paid, an ECT 1 or 2 is doing virtually the same job (at least on paper) as an experienced teacher.

So, logically, schools try to manage out experience and replace it with ‘creative’ and ‘enthusiastic’ youth.

Of course, youth does have attributes but so does experience, and schools should be able to choose the balance, not have it compelled on them by the budget.

Our public services have gone to shit, directly as a result of austerity and general hatred from the Tories. Anyone who voted Tory asked for this.

Dh is NHS and has literally had to watch what was a fantastic service that he set up pre 2010, decline into an utter shitshow and an embarrasment. He can't wait to retire now and will go as early as he can.

The most vunerable in our society, kids, the poor and the sick are the most impacted by the downgrading of our public services. And the future for the UK is bleak because of this.

ps I reckon the rates of SEN is probably for similar reasons as the rise in cancer. I think it’s hugely environmental factors relating to pollution, micro plastics, UPF, lack of nutrients

I find that hugely unlikely.

I am induction tutor responsible for 8 ECTs. It's a fucking shitshow.

Re the increase in SEN, at primary level certainly covid lockdowns have contributed, alongside a massive increase in screen time.

I think the starting salaries for teachers are now reasonable. I accept that for an experienced teacher the salaries are not so competitive, but people in other professions increase their salaries is by taking on more responsibility - by becoming managers. Many teachers do not seem to want to do that.

I think it is right for pay to reflect experience, which the current pay system does. But there is a limit, which the current system recognises, as a teacher with eg 30 years experience isn't paid any more than one with 15 experience (assuming no additional responsibilities).

Teachers, like other professionals, have the option to progress in their careers, and there seem to be many opportunities for promotion along the way, especially in secondary schools.

My daughter hasn't been teaching for long and already has a small TLR for her work as deputy head of year in a large comprehensive. She loves her teaching, but is also keen to play a wider role within the school so she is looking ahead and considering the different options for further promotion in the future.

Perhaps it is about time children were properly disciplined from an early age then. Taught respect for their elders and betters

Leaving aside the 'betters' comment, how do you think this will be achieved? Do you think that by just announcing that 'it's about time' will make it happen? If not, then what would?

Incidentally, I work in a school where behaviour is really good. Teachers are still leaving though, because of workload and general disenchantment with the way schools are run and the expectations and scrutiny they face.

I think the starting salaries for teachers are now reasonable.

I'll post this graph again.

And I'll put the ECT retention graph alongside it. If the starting salary is reasonable, it isn't doing much to retain first year teachers.

But there is a limit, which the current system recognises, as a teacher with eg 30 years experience isn't paid any more than one with 15 experience (assuming no additional responsibilities).

Teachers at the top of the pay scale have seen their pay go down in real terms (below inflation rises) every year for the last 14 years. That's not acceptable.

@noblegiraffe on all of these threads the only argument you ever seem to put forward is complaining about remuneration. I've rarely seen you put forward active solutions to any of the issues faced in education that don't include "pay us more".

How do you manage the increased levels of SEN in mainstream education? What do you see is the best way to support these children and, very burned out, parents?
How do you deal with the increased level of English as a second language?
How do you deal with the issues modern technology brings?
How do you see yourselves as members of your community?
Why aren't schools and unions kicking back against OFSTED?
Why are we demanding such high levels of qualifications to teach when LSAs (by your own admission) are doing the bulk of your work?

All this needs tackling constructively in order to retain your staff.

but people in other professions increase their salaries is by taking on more responsibility - by becoming managers. Many teachers do not seem to want to do that.

Yes, because the workload is already pretty unmanageable without taking on more responsibilities. My Head of Department is stepping down and nobody in the department will apply for the job. I'm currently Head of a subject within the department and I'd be the obvious choice, but I won't do it. I'm already stressed out and working more hours than I want to. It's not worth it for the amount of payrise and the small reduction in teaching time I'd get.

Regarding moving teaching on line, for my original degree / post-grad qualification, the OU worked brilliantly and I was lucky to have excellent tutors, a combination of summer schools, classroom attendance on weekends and towards the end on-line - I wanted to learn, so had the motivation. Sadly, my more recently experience of the OU failed, as the tutor lacked interest (and said some of this was due to their experience with the OU system) and experience, far too much reliance on the virtual, with little interactive engagement and frankly, boring support materials.

As for schools, there are a multitude of issues, educational and societal, that need addressing and funding is just one, as is wage stagnation, which is an issue that means many salaries, in far too many occupational sectors, have lagged for 20 years now and counting!

I counted the students in my primary school class pictures, from the 60s / 70s and all of the classes were in the 30s, so class size is not necessarily the issue and we never had a classroom assistant in any of the classes. Trying to educate a mixture of needs, abilities, in a class is and one size does not and will never fit all, even if a child has a statement and my niece, who is training to be a teacher, has been told, in no uncertain terms, that delivery in the classroom has to be delivered so that those at the bottom can participate, which is causing a problem of disengagement and boredom for those that need more!

We know that we have great teachers who go above and beyond, but having been a school governor, I also know we have an issue with the quality of teaching staff too and it can be incredibly difficult to deal with a failing teacher, especially if a local authority is involved! We have increasingly to support students with issues of poverty and no student learns well when they are hungry etc. There are also issues of behaviour, bullying, expectations or lack of, from both students and their parents, who have a part to play and often don't.

A friend's wife, highly qualified and with a degree in Maths, is a teaching assistant and often takes classes or steps in to deal with the class, as the support teacher (school in a very difficult area with high social deprivation) strugles to control the students or engage them with any activities in the classroom, that's if they can get the students into the class and they have now taken to knocking on doors to get the parents to bring their children into school! Privately, she also tutors students up to the age of 18, due to her knowledge. She has no desire to be a teacher, as the additional duties imposed on them are so onerous she'd have no home life and she knows how difficult the role is when you spend more of your time being a social worker than a teacher.

There is a lack of roles for newly qualified staff, but not for teaching assistants, which is indicative of schools and local authorities trying to get more for less, but then failing the students and having to find money to deal with the issues post 16! Check out the local authority job boards and you'll see the issue.

Our politicians, governments, local and national don't care enough yet, but perhaps things have to reach critical to get things to change, which I fear is going to be sooner rather than later.

I've rarely seen you put forward active solutions to any of the issues faced in education that don't include "pay us more".

I don't think you've been reading properly then?

more money/resources/time support would presumably make a difference to staff workload, satisfaction and retention. If it could be found.
behaviour is a difficult one to correct

but some blame must be put at the doors of certain teachers, bullying of staff is rife and there must be multiple reasons for this.

Can we agree comprehensive, one size fits all, education has failed our children? Or do we need another couple of generations to go through it just to make sure?

@Fifthtimelucky ,

Starting salaries are reasonable by what metric?

In what other profession would you look at a shortage in applicants (not based on degree places like medicine) and think the salary was correct for the position?

It kind of begs the question as to what value you place on the people who teach your children.

Following on from my earlier post, I forgot to mention I wrote an essay for my PGCE recently. I looked at a school's attendance policy, how it came to be, what it's supposed to do, and how it's practically implemented in the school.

I actually turned the policy back on teacher recruitment. I do think a big issue with students not attending school which isn't really explored in the media is the fact that teacher retention of both new and existing teachers is so poor. A lot of teachers aren't happy at work, so I'm not sure why they expect students to want to attend every day. Whilst sitting in the staff room of a school I was at a short placement for, I could hear the IT teacher shout and scream his frustrations at the students. "You're making me angry now, you're not listening" etc. Not talking loudly. Shouting.

I don't know how you solve the problem of teacher retention or student absenteeism, but if I figure it out, I'll let you know.

I've moved into management. I get an extra 2k a year. For that I get unbelievable extra amounts of stress and work.

How do you manage the increased levels of SEN in mainstream education?

We need more support staff and we need more special schools, and we need more inclusion units within mainstream schools. We need to make it easier, not harder to get EHCPs and we need to reduce waiting lists for diagnoses.

How do you deal with the increased level of English as a second language?

Not particularly an issue in my school, others have excellent ideas.

How do you deal with the issues modern technology brings?

Ban phones in schools. Beg parents to restrict their use out of school.

How do you see yourselves as members of your community?

Depends on the person?

Why aren't schools and unions kicking back against OFSTED?

We really are. Particularly since the death of Ruth Perry.

Why are we demanding such high levels of qualifications to teach when LSAs (by your own admission) are doing the bulk of your work?

LSAs aren't doing the bulk of my work. And people shouldn't be happy with LSAs doing the bulk of anyone's teaching.

Yes, I was at school through the start of the ‘70s until early ‘80s. State primary and comprehensive. Nothing private ever.

Every class I ever sat in until 6th form was 30 pupils. Not one TA. I’m not sure such a thing existed then.

Secondary was quite rough. But suspensions and expulsions were common enough. Any child disrupting a class was sent out. Repeated misconduct and they were out of the school. Does this not happen any more?

No wonder. Kids of today are awful. All they want to do is mess about on Tiktok.