England is running out of teachers

[noblegiraffe]

Or, to be clear, people who are willing to teach in schools. It has plenty of ex teachers who have vowed never to set foot in a school again.

While everyone seems to understand that you can't expect to see a doctor or dentist anymore, the message about not being able to expect your child to have a teacher anymore doesn't seem to have filtered through in the same way.

The number of cover lessons that kids are having is going through the roof. Some people think that if a kid has an adult in front of them then they are learning something, where kids know if they have a 'supply' timetabled that afternoon they are in for a doss lesson. Some people think that if a kid has a teacher for their subject that the teacher actually knows the subject being taught, which is increasingly not the case. Some people think that if lessons are being planned for those teachers and the teacher just has to 'deliver' them then that will be good enough, which is often not the case.

Exam classes at least used to be protected and given the 'good teachers', which is increasingly no longer the case, with Y11s reporting that they have a variety of supply teachers, even in core subjects.

There was a thread recently where an A-level student hadn't had a teacher for a year, wondering why the school hadn't done anything about it. We cannot magic up teachers! A-level students at my school are increasingly in the position of not having a teacher and having to teach themselves, and schools are now encouraged to put 'no teacher' on UCAS applications as relevant information for universities.

Recent threads about suggesting teachers need to be paid more to boost recruitment, or given a day off a fortnight to boost recruitment have attracted replies about teachers thinking they are special, or lazy, paid well enough already and having enough time off already.

But the education system is in crisis and something needs to drastically change as it's only getting worse.

The DfE's solution is to hire from abroad, at a time when the rest of government is seeking to reduce immigration.
https://www.tes.com/magazine/news/general/dfe-mulls-boost-international-recruitment

Thank you. In response

SEN - would having a tiered education system, with opportunity to move between settings at years 7, 9 and 11 not resolve this?

Do you not see the school as an integral part of a local community? Your reply would suggest not.

The fact classes can be and are being covered successfully by LSAs would suggest that this is the model education needs to move towards.

You can’t argue that £30k isn’t a good starting salary. It’s great compared to a lot of graduate jobs, especially as it’s 40 weeks a year so in effect pro-rated. There’s also promotion opportunities beyond the main teaching scale if people want to progress and earn more, and a decent pension compared to the private sector, and brilliant for families to have the school holidays off. The problem is the conditions and workload that’s concentrated in the short term times. If that was sorted then it would be a lot more attractive.

Do you not see the school as an integral part of a local community? Your reply would suggest not.

You didn't ask about schools being an integral part of a local community, you asked about how teachers see themselves as members of the community which is an entirely different question.

If that's what it takes, yes.

Classes cannot be successfully covered by LSAs. What rubbish. My LSA is amazing but isn't a teacher and would not have the experience, knowledge and skills to teach a carefully pitched lesson to my class. It's an insult to teachers to suggest this is anything other than inadequate cover. Why don't I just ask the premises officer to teach?

The fact classes can be and are being covered successfully by LSAs would suggest that this is the model education needs to move towards.

I think you need to demonstrate the classes are being 'covered successfully' by LSAs, particularly at secondary.

Ah, so it's not a good salary for the workload and working conditions. Gotcha.

I think it's slightly less than average but given that a) teachers have a very good pension scheme and log holidays, and b) the average figures are no doubt skewed by the extremely high starting salaries in some professions and in some areas, I don't think it's bad, especially for those who won't find it as easy to find jobs elsewhere because eg drama and PE graduates are less in demand (by other employers) than maths and physics graduates.

Of course recruitment is an issue, as is retention, but I think workload and pupil/parent behaviour are much bigger factors.

My junior school class back in the 1960s had 41 kids, one form teacher (who would rule the roost) and no out of control behaviour in the classroom. You didn’t date cross the teachers in those days.

There are a lot of kids missing from that classroom who would be in a modern classroom.

Well, you know how you should vote in the upcoming general elections.
Vote Tory - everything stays the same or gets worse.

I am a 2nd year ECT (secondary) and am leaving in the summer.
It's not about teaching anymore- it is crowd control/ behaviour management.
I do think the starting salary is more key but not if you count the number of extra hours I put in!

I’m a teacher of over 20 years.

In 2006 the lady who did the role I’m currently in, was on £60,000 a year. Today, nearly 20 years on I am on £51,000.

But above everything, I feel sorry for the children. My school cannot get an IT teacher. We have so much teacher absence due to stress we average around 8 cover teachers a day, and that doesn’t include the staff within the school covering. Science and Maths are areas with particular issues. Often a child will breathe a sigh of relief when they arrive at my class, because they have just had 3 cover lessons on the trot and need some routine.

It is a disaster, but no one wants to know.
Soon though, people will have no choice but to listen. The other day my school was one person off, away from having to close doors to year groups. This is not sustainable.

The way I see it going (note I don't necessarily think it is a good thing)

More kids are being hone educated

There's an increase in demand for online schools

There's an increase in demand for tutoring centres/ "schools" that are loose coalitions of home edding families

A fair few parents especially at secondary are looking at the school and going "well the school is failing my kid anyway, they aren't on track to pass their GCSEs so I might as well pull them out, get them tutored for maths and English and restart at college in a vocational course/Btec"

Quite a few ex teachers are setting up AP (alternative provisions) although the regs around this are tricky.

So more kids and more teachers are opting out of the state system.

You also have to remember that when an LSA is covering a class (with materials planned by another teacher ‘doubling up’, and often leaving marking for the permanent teacher), they are not doing their actual job supporting the most vulnerable children with the highest level of SEN.

The aspect I have not seen discussed on this thread is the extent to which schools - particularly primaries - are now delivering what was previously provided by a network of other services. When I started teaching over a decade ago, specific advisors would cone in to train me and LSAs on any interventions required by eg. children with sensory impairment. A range of special schools had places, and provided both outreach and support before that point, for children with a wide range of needs. Sure Start centres existed and we could signpost struggling parents in their direction. Social services supported families struggling with the basics if foid, washing, clothing, safety. 3rd parties provided before and after school care. Speech and language therapists, physios, OTs all came into school to deliver support and train school staff. Doctors and paediatricians existed and we could request that families saw them (and get timely reports). Ed Psychs were stably employed by LAs and we had a proportionate number of hours allocated for them to come into school.

Now ALL of that has gone, and in the absence of it, schools - by conscience and temperament unable to neglect the children and families we know so well - try their best (with no additional money and fewer staff) to fill the gaps and live with the difficulties that lack of services present (eg teaching children who should not be in mainstream settings a curriculum 4-5 years below their true age in quiet corners of corridors; working insane hours to prepare alternative resources or plan interventions).

I would never go back. I taught for 4 years in a couple of different primary schools - I miss the children so much but not the bullying from management and awful parents (not all or even a majority of course, but enough to make each day a misery.) Being expected to spend my own money on supplies, no work/life balance, not getting a chance to use the loo or eat lunch unless it was miraculously a day when my TA hadn't been assigned to another class, the endless safeguarding concerns and the terror of the consequences if something was missed because teachers are expected to compensate for the huge gaps in social services, and all this while being called lazy/entitled. I have a new career now and it's 100x easier and I don't need the holidays, I'm nowhere near as exhausted. I took a pay cut originally but it only took 2 years to be back at what I'd left, with a clear progression path for the future.

Absolutely correct, cant.

As other public services for children have collapsed, schools have stepped in to fill in the gaps with very little or no extra funding, staffing or training. And now the education system is collapsing too.

One if the reasons primaries are so reluctant to use the powers of exclusion that they do have is because they know there is nowhere for the children to go instead. And we are reluctant to endanger and fail a child in that way, for behaviour that often simply reflects how badly society has failed them. So instead we take the daily risks, the physical and mental injuries to ourselves.

Salaries in various sectors shouldn’t (and rightly aren’t) based on workload or on working conditions though. They are reflective of responsibility levels.
There is always an argument to fight for better working conditions and reasonable workload but it’s not an argument for increased salary.
So your summary of the previous poster’s comment doesn’t stand.

I also wonder if this is a ‘cheap’ way of filling recruitment gaps. No need to be a graduate to teach.

Fantastic if experienced people apply and use previous skills, but I suspect, as always that this will end up with untrained adults, with little support, doing their best.

Our children deserve better.

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2024/02/04/teacher-degree-apprenticeships-how-they-work-and-when-to-apply/

I don’t think salary is the issue though. You could pay more money and he conditions would still be bad and teachers would leave. It’s very narrow thinking to just pay more money. The salary’s fine, the rest needs to be sorted.

Ah gosh this thread is so sad to read! How have we let education get into this state? Letting down not only teachers but every single child. Shameful

It really is very odd that people keep insisting that the salary is fine when it really hasn't kept up with the market, particularly for experienced teachers.

Is it because we are majority female and people think that shit wages are therefore acceptable?

I worked as a TA (called an LSA in some schools) for over 12 years in a secondary state school but left last year along with loads of other TAs; the department has been decimated. We just couldn't be bothered to put up with all the crap anymore (behaviour issues) for a salary not much above minimum wage. I wouldn't have been happy being asked to cover lessons because I have never been trained to do so plus why should I really, it's not my job and it just hides the crisis in teacher retainment.

Having observed thousands of lessons over the years and the interactions between pupils and teachers, I have nothing but respect for teachers and I don't blame those of you that have had enough. The lack of respect from pupils is worse than I can ever remember and parental support for schools often sadly lacking. I wonder if the two things are linked?

I have been lucky with my kids schools so far, very few supply teachers, wonderful school with wonderful teachers. However I am aware that we are lucky. As a health care professional one thing that drives me bonkers is tuition fees for people who are working in key roles. I really think these should be scrapped. I appreciate that you could not just scrap them just because someone has embarked on teacher training/ nursing degrees but they should after say x amount of years working as a teacher/ nurse/ Dr etc.

Right now if I was starting over there is no way I would choose to study to be a teacher or any public sector role knowing the extra tax burden I would face with the costs of up to 50% of my salary. Surely this would be a simple way to attract more people into these roles.